Camera Advice For Shooting Slides

Agulliver · Jan 8, 2017

How did we manage before electronic metering?

I'd err on the side of caution, and aim to underexpose by half a stop. You don't know how accurate your shutter speeds are and E6 film does blow out easily....certainly doesn't have the 1-2 stop over-exposure capability of negative film. It does depend on what you're photographing, but generally a slightly underexposed slide will look better than an overexposed slide. That said, part of the thrill of shooting slides is getting it right first time.

Cholentpot · Jan 8, 2017

Agulliver said:
How did we manage before electronic metering?

I'd err on the side of caution, and aim to underexpose by half a stop. You don't know how accurate your shutter speeds are and E6 film does blow out easily....certainly doesn't have the 1-2 stop over-exposure capability of negative film. It does depend on what you're photographing, but generally a slightly underexposed slide will look better than an overexposed slide. That said, part of the thrill of shooting slides is getting it right first time.

Thanks, this is solid advice.

I always aim for slight over exposure on negative film to compensate for the underexposed zones. With digital I do the opposite. It would seem I should treat E6 sort of like a digital shot.

Cholentpot · Jan 8, 2017

Chan Tran said:
I don't see any problem starting out with 120, no meter or slow film. I do see a problem with expired film as you don't know what to expect.

I started with a Lubitel 2, Ektar 100 and Tmax400. I had no clue what the numbers meant nor what depth of field was or what the hell aperture does. I would constantly forget which film I loaded and what speed it was. I left the camera in my car for weeks at a time in summer hot weather, the paper fused to the film and I had wonky color shifts. And still half my photos came out amazing!

Eventually I learned what to do by trail and error. Expired C-41 gave me my start learning how to handle film and develop myself. Expired B&W taught me that slow black and white is good enough for me even when expired by ten years. I think I shot about 50 rolls of expired Kodak Gold 200 12 shot cans. Horrible stuff, I rated it at 25 to get usable images.

fstop · Jan 8, 2017

Agulliver said:
How did we manage before electronic metering?

I'd err on the side of caution, and aim to underexpose by half a stop. You don't know how accurate your shutter speeds are and E6 film does blow out easily....certainly doesn't have the 1-2 stop over-exposure capability of negative film. It does depend on what you're photographing, but generally a slightly underexposed slide will look better than an overexposed slide. That said, part of the thrill of shooting slides is getting it right first time.

You had wide variations in exposure and tons of bad shots.

Les Sarile · Jan 8, 2017

fstop said:
You had wide variations in exposure and tons of bad shots.

Only for those who have bad gear or don't know how to use them or not familiar with the exposure characteristics of the film in use or a combination of these. For all others, slide film is not a problem at all.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 8, 2017

Cholentpot said:
I guess I'm learning something after all! Lot's o' clouds here so I'll keep and eye on that kind of thing. I'm going to assume that the first handful of rolls I shoot are going to go pearshaped. My hit count on negative film took a long time to get to acceptable levels. Might be because I started on hard mode with 120, no meter and a slow expired film. I learned the hard way but I learned.

I think you would derive a lot of benefit from this as a first-learning exercise. It is not likely to be a total disaster and errors are a normal part of the experience. You should also take notes of your exposure over each frame as you move through the roll so you can critically inspect the results in the lightbox and refer back to the notes as to what you were doing.

I will be teaching transparency film exposue and multispot metering (advanced class) next weekend in a national park in the landscape/low light context. It's a pity you're so far away in the frigid USA while down here in Australia we are tottering about the beaches in Speedos!! It has been feckin' hot here.

fstop · Jan 8, 2017

Les Sarile said:
Only for those who have bad gear or don't know how to use them or not familiar with the exposure characteristics of the film in use or a combination of these. For all others, slide film is not a problem at all.

I didn't say I had issues. I've seen a lot of issues with colleagues images.

Les Sarile · Jan 8, 2017

fstop said:
I didn't say I had issues. I've seen a lot of issues with colleagues images.

I didin't state you had issues.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 8, 2017

Agulliver said:
How did we manage before electronic metering?

Metering — evaluative, matrix, 3D ... call it what you will or want, was an improvement, especially when using a film that required more precise exposure metrics, but it was not, and is not, the magic bullet. The big problem is photographers putting way too much faith in the meter without understanding the "fit" of the scene to the film in use — particularly slide film; there are other problems too, indirectly related. It can be said that these all-electronic wunderkinds have broken more hearts out there than a leading lady with herpes. And it's all the fault of photographers, not the cameras! And so they say "this camera is not good", they go and buy another... period., and the same thing happens (a similar thing is evident with digital fanbois who believe constant upgrades lead to better pictures). They'd be better learning the fundamentals of metering with a box brownie before moving onto a F6-do it all and more.

Cholentpot · Jan 8, 2017

Poisson Du Jour said:
Metering — evaluative, matrix, 3D ... call it what you will or want, was an improvement, especially when using a film that required more precise exposure metrics, but it was not, and is not, the magic bullet. The big problem is photographers putting way too much faith in the meter without understanding the "fit" of the scene to the film in use — particularly slide film; there are other problems too, indirectly related. It can be said that these all-electronic wunderkinds have broken more hearts out there than a leading lady with herpes. And it's all the fault of photographers, not the cameras! And so they say "this camera is not good", they go and buy another... period., and the same thing happens (a similar thing is evident with digital fanbois who believe constant upgrades lead to better pictures). They'd be better learning the fundamentals of metering with a box brownie before moving onto a F6-do it all and more.

So you're saying I can pull off shooting Fujichrome 100 with my Bronica S2 using Sunny 16?

And it's friggin -9.4 commie here. 15 for us 'Mericans. When the wind blows you even want to look outside.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 8, 2017

Cholentpot said:
So you're saying I can pull off shooting Fujichrome 100 with my Bronica S2 using Sunny 16?

No reason not to try that. And if its Provia 100F it will handle brighter conditions much better than its stablemate Velvia.

Cholentpot · Jan 8, 2017

Poisson Du Jour said:
No reason not to try that. And if its Provia 100F it will handle brighter conditions much better than its stablemate Velvia.

fujichrome RAP astia 100, I have no clue what it's dynamics are. Freezer stored so I'm not going to downrate it.

Sirius Glass · Jan 8, 2017

Any working 35mm slr with a through the lens meter, take a light reading without the sky, re-aim, check focus, make sure telephone poles, posts, street lamps or trees are not sprouting from someone's head, and squeeze the shutter release.

MultiFormat Shooter · Jan 8, 2017

Cholentpot said:
I always aim for slight over exposure on negative film to compensate for the underexposed zones. With digital I do the opposite. It would seem I should treat E6 sort of like a digital shot.

Yes, correct, you don't want to blow the highlights with transparency film.

1L6E6VHF · Jan 8, 2017

Cholentpot said:
fujichrome RAP astia 100, I have no clue what it's dynamics are. Freezer stored so I'm not going to downrate it.

Astia was designed with people pictures in mind, it has less contrast than Provia and much less contrast than Velvia. Ignoring EPR64 or Konicachrome 100 (both seriously outdated if you find old stock today), Astia would be a best choice for a color slide newbie.

Les Sarile · Jan 8, 2017

MultiFormat Shooter said:
Yes, correct, you don't want to blow the highlights with transparency film.

You do if the scene requires you to sacrifice the highlights in favor of saving what is important such as in the case of high key image. But I understand what you mean that slides have a narrower latitude relative to C41 and b&w.

At the end of the day, learn the characteristics of each film and your meter so you achieve the "proper exposure" desired.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 8, 2017

Cholentpot said:
fujichrome RAP astia 100, I have no clue what it's dynamics are. Freezer stored so I'm not going to downrate it.

ASTIA is probably the No. 1 emulsion that FujiFans want to see reintroduced. As a break from Kodachrome 200, I ran through around 20 rolls in the South Pacific in 1994 and liked it; a softer, more forgiving contrast profile, lush greens and neutral skins. But it looked grainy enlarged, much more so than Kodachrome.

Les Sarile · Jan 8, 2017

Poisson Du Jour said:
ASTIA is probably the No. 1 emulsion that FujiFans want to see reintroduced. . . But it looked grainy enlarged, much more so than Kodachrome.

Granted Kodak and Fuji have different rating methodology when it comes to assessing grain - and also which Kodachrome is being compared, but Fuji Astia 100F was the least grainy film with an RMS of 7 -> http://www.fujifilm.com/products/professional_films/color_reversalfilms/astia_100f/

MultiFormat Shooter · Jan 8, 2017

Les Sarile said:
At the end of the day, learn the characteristics of each film and your meter so you achieve the "proper exposure" desired.

I totally agree!

Arklatexian · Jan 8, 2017

Cholentpot said:
Thanks, this is solid advice.

I always aim for slight over exposure on negative film to compensate for the underexposed zones. With digital I do the opposite. It would seem I should treat E6 sort of like a digital shot.

Earlier in this post, someone said that sunny 16 would not work with slide/reversal films. I once had a little folder 35mm camera. I would tape the shutter speed so it could not be changed to the nearest speed to the film speed and the aperture to the equiv. f:16 and tape the distance on 15ft. I would then load the camera with 36 exp Kodachrome, hand the camera to my mother to take on a trip, tell her to only take pictures when the sun was shining, and away she would go. Most of the time she would get 30 out of 36 good slides. That was a better average than I was getting at the time. Sure you can use the sunny 16 rule, just remember the instructions....Regards!

Cholentpot · Jan 9, 2017

oldtimermetoo said:
Earlier in this post, someone said that sunny 16 would not work with slide/reversal films. I once had a little folder 35mm camera. I would tape the shutter speed so it could not be changed to the nearest speed to the film speed and the aperture to the equiv. f:16 and tape the distance on 15ft. I would then load the camera with 36 exp Kodachrome, hand the camera to my mother to take on a trip, tell her to only take pictures when the sun was shining, and away she would go. Most of the time she would get 30 out of 36 good slides. That was a better average than I was getting at the time. Sure you can use the sunny 16 rule, just remember the instructions....Regards!

Love these stories.

So you gave Ma the equivalent of a Kodak Funshot. I'll go for it with a roll, sunny 16 never did me wrong with negative.

flavio81 · Jan 9, 2017

Cholentpot said:
Hi,

With the announcement from Kodak that they're bringing back Ektachrome I guess it's time for me to load up some of my old stuff from the freezer and learn to shoot slide. I've never shot E-6 before and I'm not sure which camera to use. I have a bunch of camera but only a few with functioning accurate meters.

Nikon F3HP
Pentax K1000
Pentax ME Super
Canon AE-1
Olympus OM-G
Canon EOS A2

The OM-G, F3, and A2 are out for now because I don't want to tie them up with a roll that's going to take months to use up (It's cold and winter, slow rolls take a while). And the OM-G sucks.

That leaves me for now with the AE-1 or the Pentaxsisis.

Any suggestions? I'll be using Ektachrome 160T with an 85B filter.

Shalom Cholentpot!

I've owned or used most of the cameras listed so, my take on this:

Almost any of them will work as long as the meter is OK, and as long as you know how to use the specific kind of meter (spot, centerweighted, etc).

The F3 has an almost spot or "partial" meter, it is very easy to get correctly exposed slides with it (been there done that).
Last time i shot good slides i used my Canon F-1N which has a centerweighted meter with SPD (silicon photo diode) sensor and all slides turned out great. HOWEVER i do use the compensation dial to add 1 stop or subtract 1 stop as needed (for example, add 1 stop if your subject is very light, subtract 1 stop if your subject is very dark, etc etc etc>). Or, aim the meter to the central subject, take the reading and then recompose.

The AE-1 has also a SPD sensor with centerweighted pattern, as well as (I think) the Pentax ME Super*, so they will work just fine (and I did shoot many slides with my own AE-1 and with an A-1 which has the same meter system)

* ME Super has a GPD sensor which was pushed by Pentax as even better than the SPD, in any case this means it would work just fine.

SPD sensors have a color sensitivity that is well balanced so it works OK with light that is also of other colors than daylight. The Pentax K1000 i wouldn't recommend because it has a CdS sensor and this sensor has a particular color sensitivity that will mean that an 85B filter in front of the lens won't make the meter have the correct reading for the situation. OR in any case you could meter without the filter, then add the filter and compensate.

As mentioned before, better than any of the above is to carry an incident light meter.

The Canon EOS A2 (i have the EOS 5 which is almost identical) shoots perfect slides with the matrix system. This was my choice for shooting my sister's wedding on Ektachrome EPP100; all frames properly exposed.

I don't feel happy with any Olympus SLR so i have no idea on the OM-G but i guess it should work just as well.

Since you don't want to "tie" the F3, OM-G, A2, then my choice would be the AE-1 or the ME-Super, so it's down to what do you want...
... the Canon FD system, known for exotic lenses, low distortion, and high sharpness over the whole image field?
or
... the Pentax K system, known for deep saturation, high contrast, good flare resistance, nice bokeh on most lenses?

I'm a big Canon FD fan but for slides perhaps the Pentax SMC lenses would give even deeper colors. Unless you use something as the Canon FD 50/1.4 which is known for great colors.

flavio81 · Jan 9, 2017

oldtimermetoo said:
Earlier in this post, someone said that sunny 16 would not work with slide/reversal films. I once had a little folder 35mm camera. I would tape the shutter speed so it could not be changed to the nearest speed to the film speed and the aperture to the equiv. f:16 and tape the distance on 15ft. I would then load the camera with 36 exp Kodachrome, hand the camera to my mother to take on a trip, tell her to only take pictures when the sun was shining, and away she would go. Most of the time she would get 30 out of 36 good slides. That was a better average than I was getting at the time. Sure you can use the sunny 16 rule, just remember the instructions....Regards!

Sunny 16 works perfectly if you know how to use it well.

For example if you are on the open, full sun (f16) and then you want to shoot a subject that sits fully in the (dark) shade, you need to apply the required compensation (i've forgot if this was 3 stops, i think it was). If you are on full cloudy/mediocre weather mode (f5.6) then subjects in the shade will not require too much compensation and so on.

Sometimes Sunny 16 works even better than the camera, if you don't know how to prevent your camera meter from being fooled by things such as the sky in the frame, a bright light within the frame, too light/too dark subjects, etc.

Cholentpot · Jan 9, 2017

flavio81 said:
Shalom Cholentpot!

I've owned or used most of the cameras listed so, my take on this:

Almost any of them will work as long as the meter is OK, and as long as you know how to use the specific kind of meter (spot, centerweighted, etc).

The F3 has an almost spot or "partial" meter, it is very easy to get correctly exposed slides with it (been there done that).
Last time i shot good slides i used my Canon F-1N which has a centerweighted meter with SPD (silicon photo diode) sensor and all slides turned out great. HOWEVER i do use the compensation dial to add 1 stop or subtract 1 stop as needed (for example, add 1 stop if your subject is very light, subtract 1 stop if your subject is very dark, etc etc etc>). Or, aim the meter to the central subject, take the reading and then recompose.

The AE-1 has also a SPD sensor with centerweighted pattern, as well as (I think) the Pentax ME Super*, so they will work just fine (and I did shoot many slides with my own AE-1 and with an A-1 which has the same meter system)

* ME Super has a GPD sensor which was pushed by Pentax as even better than the SPD, in any case this means it would work just fine.

SPD sensors have a color sensitivity that is well balanced so it works OK with light that is also of other colors than daylight. The Pentax K1000 i wouldn't recommend because it has a CdS sensor and this sensor has a particular color sensitivity that will mean that an 85B filter in front of the lens won't make the meter have the correct reading for the situation. OR in any case you could meter without the filter, then add the filter and compensate.

As mentioned before, better than any of the above is to carry an incident light meter.

The Canon EOS A2 (i have the EOS 5 which is almost identical) shoots perfect slides with the matrix system. This was my choice for shooting my sister's wedding on Ektachrome EPP100; all frames properly exposed.

I don't feel happy with any Olympus SLR so i have no idea on the OM-G but i guess it should work just as well.

Since you don't want to "tie" the F3, OM-G, A2, then my choice would be the AE-1 or the ME-Super, so it's down to what do you want...
... the Canon FD system, known for exotic lenses, low distortion, and high sharpness over the whole image field?
or
... the Pentax K system, known for deep saturation, high contrast, good flare resistance, nice bokeh on most lenses?

I'm a big Canon FD fan but for slides perhaps the Pentax SMC lenses would give even deeper colors. Unless you use something as the Canon FD 50/1.4 which is known for great colors.

Aliechem Shalom Flavio!

I've got more lenses for the Pentax system than the FD. Good info on the K1000 though, Had no clue about the filter business. In the end it like the best idea will be to tie up either the A2 of F3. My ME Sup has an ever so slightly misaligned film carrier which results in the film being exposed slightly higher vertical almost at the sprockets. No big deal unless I want to project the slides then it's a problem.

For 120 I have an M645 with a half working meter I need to set it a stop higher to get a correct reading, a Bronica S2, Lubitel 2, Richoflex VI, and a Brownie No.2 so a meter would be a good idea. My phone won't meter for some reason, the apps don't like it.

I have a Gossen Luna Pro but it needs the battery adapter. Even then I'm not sure if it would be correct. Any advice on an ultra cheap reliable meter?

flavio81 · Jan 9, 2017

Cholentpot said:
I have a Gossen Luna Pro but it needs the battery adapter. Even then I'm not sure if it would be correct. Any advice on an ultra cheap reliable meter?

I have a Luna Pro as well!! Two of them...

Any meter that uses the old mercury PX625 batteries will work just fine with the zinc-air, hearing aid #675 batteries. They give the same voltage and the discharge curve is flat.

Just make yourself a simple 'adapter' made of cardboard or whatever to keep the #675 cells centered on the contacts. If no good contact is made, add a bit of mashed aluminum foil on top of the cells so they close tight. For the Luna Pro it shouldn't be difficult at all. (Currently my Luna Pros have the original mercury cells.)

Camera Advice For Shooting Slides

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