Camera Advice For Shooting Slides

Cholentpot · Jan 7, 2017

Hi,

With the announcement from Kodak that they're bringing back Ektachrome I guess it's time for me to load up some of my old stuff from the freezer and learn to shoot slide. I've never shot E-6 before and I'm not sure which camera to use. I have a bunch of camera but only a few with functioning accurate meters.

Nikon F3HP
Pentax K1000
Pentax ME Super
Canon AE-1
Olympus OM-G
Canon EOS A2

The OM-G, F3, and A2 are out for now because I don't want to tie them up with a roll that's going to take months to use up (It's cold and winter, slow rolls take a while). And the OM-G sucks.

That leaves me for now with the AE-1 or the Pentaxsisis.

Any suggestions? I'll be using Ektachrome 160T with an 85B filter.

MattKing · Jan 7, 2017

I was going to suggest the OM-G, because I like using mine .
Any one of your cameras will work just about as well as any of the others, but they might be a bit of a pain to use with an 85B filter on all the time.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 7, 2017

Nothing like loading up an ancient camera with slide film and waiting for the results.
A drifting/dud meter or even a small error will be glaringly obvious.

There is a winner in the list, and I can speak of it. The F3HP (with MD-4) saw service with me running hundreds of Kodachrome 200 through it on around the nation travels 30 years ago. There was nothing to fault in it, save for it being far from an "instamatic" suitable for bicycle touring!

The A2 (EOS 5) would have been my second pick (I used one in parallel with an EOS 1N for about 10 years, but it didn't last anywhere near the still in-service 1N!).

Cholentpot · Jan 7, 2017

MattKing said:
I was going to suggest the OM-G, because I like using mine .
Any one of your cameras will work just about as well as any of the others, but they might be a bit of a pain to use with an 85B filter on all the time.

I dunno, I never got a nice feel out of my OM-G. I put 5-6 rolls through it and it just felt loose and plasticy. Maybe I have a bad example...

Cholentpot · Jan 7, 2017

Poisson Du Jour said:
Nothing like loading up an ancient camera with slide film and waiting for the results.
A drifting/dud meter or even a small error will be glaringly obvious.

There is a winner in the list, and I can speak of it. The F3HP (with MD-4) saw service with me running hundreds of Kodachrome 200 through it on around the nation travels 30 years ago. There was nothing to fault in it, save for it being far from an "instamatic" suitable for bicycle touring!

The A2 (EOS 5) would have been my second pick (I used one in parallel with an EOS 1N for about 10 years, but it didn't last anywhere near the still in-service 1N!).

Both of those are my go to cameras. The F3 and A2. I guess I don't want to bog those two down with a roll that might take me months to get through. I have some of the all time greats in my stable but they're mercury fiends so I use them with sunny 16. That's not going to work with slide from what I understand.

I do have an Rebel G (500N) that needs batteries. I would use it but for lack of focus button on the rear. Also, I'm not sure how much the 85B will mess with the autofocus.

waileong · Jan 7, 2017

Incident metering of the hlightlights is best. But a smart camera like a Canon EOS A2 have a multi-metering mode that will work well for most situations.

Cholentpot · Jan 7, 2017

waileong said:
Incident metering of the hlightlights is best. But a smart camera like a Canon EOS A2 have a multi-metering mode that will work well for most situations.

Slide tends to blow out quicker than negative film from what I understand. How does it deal with underexposure? I tend to meter with film on a few places and settle on a compromise, would this technique work with slide? Does it have any play or it blows out willy nilly?

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 7, 2017

The A2's evaluative meter (in 0.5 steps) is superbly capable of handling exposure of slide film correctly, but you must be shooting in favourable light to bring out the best of the slide film, not the meter! This cannot be emphasised enough. If you want to shoot in all light, not just that which is best for slide film, then use negative film — much more latitude and grace than slide film.

Highlights will blow out if you are shooting in bright light. Shadows will also block for the same reason. Evaluative metering will be excellent (I speak from experience with the A2 and also the EOS 1N) in handling the scene if the light is favourable to the film (as I said above). It's not all about how competent or clever a meter is, but how knowledgeable the photographer is of the film he or she is using! Slide film can be shot successfully in all lighting with a hand-held multispot meter to sort out luminance values and balance everything. It can still be a tightrope act, but it can be done.

Cholentpot · Jan 7, 2017

Poisson Du Jour said:
The A2's evaluative meter is superbly capable of handling exposure of slide film correctly, but you must be shooting in favourable light to bring out the best of the slide film, not the meter! This cannot be emphasised enough. If you want to shoot in all light, not just that which is best for slide film, then use negative film.

Highlights will blow out if you are shooting in bright light. Shadows will also block for the same reason. Evaluative metering will be excellent (I speak from experience with the A2 and also the EOS 1N) in handling the scene if the light is favourable to the film (as I said above). It's not all about how competent or clever a meter is, but how knowledgeable the photographer is of the film he or she is using! Slide film can be shot successfully in all lighting with a hand-held multispot meter to sort out luminance values and balance everything. It can still be a tightrope act, but it can be done.

I guess the only way to get there is to shoot yes? After three years and over 100 rolls of C-41 I'm finally feeling confident enough to second guess the meter. I've learned more or less how film will act in many situations. Now I need to get those first 100 rolls of E-6 to get the feel.

I'm going to take a stab at this and tell me if I'm right. Shooting at noon with sun overhead is not very good for slide film. Better idea would be to move subject into shade or wait until some clouds move in or late afternoon. Then again these rules apply to all photography. I guess I'll go through my stash of roll and see what there is to be learned.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 8, 2017

Cholentpot said:
Shooting at noon with sun overhead is not very good for slide film.

It's fairly lousy for any type of film actually.
In areas where there are shadow and highlights in the scene that require to be preserved, shooting at noon in bright sun is going to send things nicely ... pear-shaped. But, there is nothing to stop you from screwing the film and shooting a family group on the beach in those conditions.

Cholentpot said:
Better idea would be to move subject into shade or wait until some clouds move in or late afternoon.

Shooting in the shade in bright conditions will cause a blue cast, endemic to E6 films. Personally I like this effect, but for others they view it as jarring and off-putting. And the second part of your statement is correct, assuming you get enough clouds to create a lovely, diffuse light situation where shadows are smoothed through, highlights twinkle gently and the film can be seen to be enjoying the experience. These conditions are typically what I shoot in rainforests: in bright sun the shadows are catastrophic to the point where track and trail are near-impossible to make out, never mind about how slide film would fare! Then the clouds wander along (hopefully with a drenching thunderstorm!) and everything, everything, makes sense again!

Cholentpot said:
Then again these rules apply to all photography.

But those rules (or "rules of thumb") apply especially to understanding how slide film records both bright and diffuse light.

Bill Burk · Jan 8, 2017

You know, tungsten film under tungsten light can be very beautiful. You might try using it indoors.

Of course modern technology being disruptive as it is... you might be hard-pressed to find an indoor location that is lit by tungsten.

But if you bring your own light, say change all the bulbs in the living room and kitchen at your friend's house... and then document a party... you can catch your friends wearing their party hats...

chriscrawfordphoto · Jan 8, 2017

MattKing said:
I was going to suggest the OM-G, because I like using mine .
Any one of your cameras will work just about as well as any of the others, but they might be a bit of a pain to use with an 85B filter on all the time.

An OM-G was my first camera! When I was a kid, my dad bought one. I was curious about it so he showed me how to use it. I used it so much over the next couple years that he went and bought another one for me so he could have his back. He gave it to me for my 11th birthday. Its not by any means the best camera Olympus made (in high school I got an OM-4T) but it got me hooked on photography. I'm 41 years old now.

Wish I still had my OM-G. It got broken in a car accident when I was 16. Totaled my first car and broke my first camera.

MattKing · Jan 8, 2017

With slide film, your in camera exposure determines almost all of the results. Contrast that with negative film, where you can make exposure decisions knowing that there are further steps that can and should be taken at the printing stage.
With slide film, over-exposure tends to be much more harmful than under-exposure. Negative film tends to punish you more for under-exposure.
Slide film begs to be projected. It really rewards "sparkle" in the highlights, but looks lousy if the highlights are blown out and lack detail.
With that in mind, I'd suggest paying particular attention to the highlights and lighter areas in your subject when making metering decisions. At the same time, you need to realize that if your subject luminance range is extreme, the film will have difficulty recording everything there. Sometimes, you have to decide what you are willing to give up - highlight or shadow detail. Or alternatively, you have to decide to either seek or supply different light.
One further thing to remember, particularly considering the emulsion you are using. Colour casts cannot easily be corrected if you are planning to project your slides. You need to pay close attention to the colour of the light.

MattKing · Jan 8, 2017

One example: 35mm slide film in an OM body (possibly the OM-G ). Mixed light sources, including some that are actually in the scene. Fairly diffuse light (slide friendly) but there is a wide range of subject luminances.

chriscrawfordphoto · Jan 8, 2017

My advice is use any camera you want and determine exposure with an incident light meter.

thuggins · Jan 8, 2017

Cholentpot said:
I'm going to take a stab at this and tell me if I'm right. Shooting at noon with sun overhead is not very good for slide film.

Use a camera with an accurate meter, be aware of the luminence of your scene, and forget silly "rules" about when to shoot and when not to.

Ektachrome has a good dynamic range. The highlights won't "blow out" unless you totally screw up the exposure, in which case in which case the frame will be ruined anyway.

Soeren · Jan 8, 2017

I got great results shooting slides in the olympus om 1. Somewhere we have boxes of slides my father shot in a Voigtländer Vito and Ive seen some amazing work from a 4x5". Its not the gear, Its how good you are using it.

jimjm · Jan 8, 2017

Poisson Du Jour said:
There is a winner in the list, and I can speak of it. The F3HP (with MD-4) saw service with me running hundreds of Kodachrome 200 through it on around the nation travels 30 years ago

I'll second the suggestion of the F3 or F3HP as a very capable camera for slide film. For years I noticed that I seemed to have a higher percentage of correctly-exposed slides with my F3 than with other cameras, and it may have something to do with the heavier center-weighted meter pattern of 80/20, versus 60/40 for most other cameras of the era. But with slide film you definitely need to evaluate the scene and lighting yourself, rather than blindly depend on the meter, as opposed to B/W or color print film. I've shot a lot of Velvia, and that can be a very tricky film in bright light or high contrast situations. Provia has been my film of choice for awhile. I'm looking forward to trying the new Ektachrome, especially if it's more forgiving.

Here's a few slides from the F3:

Diapositivo · Jan 8, 2017

chriscrawfordphoto said:
My advice is use any camera you want and determine exposure with an incident light meter.

Exactly! And if the situation is complicated by a high luminance range, and on wants to use slide film, use a spot reflected light meter!
Using slide film forces the photographer to understand exposure and film behaviour. Any misconception is inevitably reflected in the final result, as there normally is no print stage where to compensate. When the mechanism is understood and external light meters are used properly, there are no mistake and no surprise in the final result.
In-camera meters, especially evaluative ones, are the last thing I would use for slide film.

Soeren · Jan 8, 2017

Mamiya 645pro does pretty well too

fstop · Jan 8, 2017

F-3 DE-2 finder not the HP.
Nikon FA
Minolta XD
Minolta XK

They have internal meters that work exceptionally well with slide film. External meters won't give you the correct exposure when using a circular polarizer.

Prest_400 · Jan 8, 2017

Bill Burk said:
You know, tungsten film under tungsten light can be very beautiful. You might try using it indoors.

Of course modern technology being disruptive as it is... you might be hard-pressed to find an indoor location that is lit by tungsten.

But if you bring your own light, say change all the bulbs in the living room and kitchen at your friend's house... and then document a party... you can catch your friends wearing their party hats...

I've seen fantastic results with Tungsten film for long exposures outdoor under street lighting. The widespread yellow sodium vapour lights look more neutral with Tungsten films (don't know if they are strictly as tungsten source).

For some reason I read that Slide film tends to handle reciprocity better than Negative (as said by an article in Magnachrom magazine 2007).

I like mixed lighting and its casts for certain subjects (not portraiture directly) because it adds some variety and ambiance.

I first shot slide with an OM1 and onboard meter plus a bit of ad hoc exposure judgement. Some underexposures but it was alright. I still keep a last roll of Elitechrome which will go through a Nikon F80 now $30 AF whiz wonder.

Chan Tran · Jan 8, 2017

Cholentpot said:
Hi,

With the announcement from Kodak that they're bringing back Ektachrome I guess it's time for me to load up some of my old stuff from the freezer and learn to shoot slide. I've never shot E-6 before and I'm not sure which camera to use. I have a bunch of camera but only a few with functioning accurate meters.

Nikon F3HP
Pentax K1000
Pentax ME Super
Canon AE-1
Olympus OM-G
Canon EOS A2

The OM-G, F3, and A2 are out for now because I don't want to tie them up with a roll that's going to take months to use up (It's cold and winter, slow rolls take a while). And the OM-G sucks.

That leaves me for now with the AE-1 or the Pentaxsisis.

Any suggestions? I'll be using Ektachrome 160T with an 85B filter.

Don't worry about the meter. How accurate are your shutter speeds?

Cholentpot · Jan 8, 2017

Chan Tran said:
Don't worry about the meter. How accurate are your shutter speeds?

The F3 and A2 are bang on, unsure about the AE-1 and the K1000 and high speeds. The real issue is that there's not much to get out and shoot slow film when it's freezing outside. The camera is going to sit loaded until the spring and sidelined.

thuggins said:
Use a camera with an accurate meter, be aware of the luminence of your scene, and forget silly "rules" about when to shoot and when not to.

Ektachrome has a good dynamic range. The highlights won't "blow out" unless you totally screw up the exposure, in which case in which case the frame will be ruined anyway.

In general I shoot from the proverbial hip, if it looks nice I'l shoot. I'm not sure of the outcome though. Shooting with an 85B has worked for me with tungsten balanced ECN-2 xprocessed in C-41. With C-41 I correct in scan. Looks like I need to be more careful with slide because I do plan to project.

chriscrawfordphoto said:
An OM-G was my first camera! When I was a kid, my dad bought one. I was curious about it so he showed me how to use it. I used it so much over the next couple years that he went and bought another one for me so he could have his back. He gave it to me for my 11th birthday. Its not by any means the best camera Olympus made (in high school I got an OM-4T) but it got me hooked on photography. I'm 41 years old now.

Wish I still had my OM-G. It got broken in a car accident when I was 16. Totaled my first car and broke my first camera.

I think my problem with the OM-G is that I got it around the same time as my F3 and was using it as my second body. I think I was holding it up to the wrong standard and never got over it. It's given me great photos but I never liked the feel in my hand.

Poisson Du Jour said:
It's fairly lousy for any type of film actually.
In areas where there are shadow and highlights in the scene that require to be preserved, shooting at noon in bright sun is going to send things nicely ... pear-shaped. But, there is nothing to stop you from screwing the film and shooting a family group on the beach in those conditions.

Shooting in the shade in bright conditions will cause a blue cast, endemic to E6 films. Personally I like this effect, but for others they view it as jarring and off-putting. And the second part of your statement is correct, assuming you get enough clouds to create a lovely, diffuse light situation where shadows are smoothed through, highlights twinkle gently and the film can be seen to be enjoying the experience. These conditions are typically what I shoot in rainforests: in bright sun the shadows are catastrophic to the point where track and trail are near-impossible to make out, never mind about how slide film would fare! Then the clouds wander along (hopefully with a drenching thunderstorm!) and everything, everything, makes sense again!

But those rules (or "rules of thumb") apply especially to understanding how slide film records both bright and diffuse light.

I guess I'm learning something after all! Lot's o' clouds here so I'll keep and eye on that kind of thing. I'm going to assume that the first handful of rolls I shoot are going to go pearshaped. My hit count on negative film took a long time to get to acceptable levels. Might be because I started on hard mode with 120, no meter and a slow expired film. I learned the hard way but I learned.

Chan Tran · Jan 8, 2017

I don't see any problem starting out with 120, no meter or slow film. I do see a problem with expired film as you don't know what to expect.

Camera Advice For Shooting Slides

Cholentpot

MattKing

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Poisson Du Jour

Cholentpot

Cholentpot

waileong

Cholentpot

Poisson Du Jour

Cholentpot

Poisson Du Jour

Bill Burk

chriscrawfordphoto

MattKing

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MattKing

Moderator

chriscrawfordphoto

thuggins

Soeren

jimjm

Diapositivo

Soeren

fstop

Prest_400

Chan Tran

Cholentpot

Chan Tran

Camera Advice For Shooting Slides

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