Caffenol-C help

Hi, sorry about bothering, but, i need help to develop B&W films with caffenol.

I have never developped a film before, but i have 2 exposed B&W rolls, and i don't have any rolls left to make tests.

They're Kodak Tri-X 400 rolls, normally exposed.

I also have no fixer, so i'll use saltwater, at high concentration (as 300g/l) and let it for about 2 days (after a good stop bath and washing).

My biggest problem, is that i can't find a time/temperature chart to help me.

I'll use the Delta-STD recipe from Caffenol.org from http://www.caffenol.org/recipes/

But, the link to the time/temp chart is broken, and i can't use the 20° temperature, it'll be probably about 27° here.

Also, i don't have powder vitamic C, i need to use effervescent tablets. Is vitamin C powder pure ascorbic acid? 1 gram of the powder have 1 gram of vitamic C?

And by last, but not least: Should i do the presoak? Can i use vinager as stop bath?

Thanks!

Well, you ask many questions. Let's try to deal with a few at a time. If you do not have fixer, you may still be able to buy sodium thiosulphate from farm supply stores, and possibly from other sources too. It is sold as food additive for cattle and other ruminants, and is also used in several other industries. Try aquarium supplies, as it is also used to treat water to render the chlorine content safe for fishes. It will be a much better option than seawater for fixer.

Vit C tablets contains binders and other gunk that you really would not want in your developer if you can help it. If you must, check the description - it will say how much ascorbic acid is contained per tablet. But definitely don't go on the weight of the tablet itself. Try to find a chemicals supplier that can supply you with pure ascorbic acid, or alternatively pure sodium ascorbate. Ascorbic acid is incredibly cheap if bought in bulk supply, something like $7/kilo where I live (South Africa). By comparison, tablets are many multiples of ten times more expensive.

As for temperature, it is a bit more complicated. Ideally, one should not go much above 24 deg C, and there is no info on using Caffenol at such high temperatures AFAIK. I presume you can measure the temperature. In that case, just start with developer at roughly 19 deg C, and develop normally as for 20 deg C. Avoid stand development if you haven't developed film before. (I would add: Avoid Caffenol if you haven't developed film before, but that is probably unkind, and I don't know your motivation for having to use Caffenol). Not to say it is not a good development method, but stand is deceptive in its apparent simplicity, and there are far too many things that can go wrong for which you will have no explanation, and no clue how to get it right. Since Tri-X is not listed in the dev times table on the Caffenol site, try to find a film that is similar e.g. HP5+ (not TMax 400!!) and compare their dev times for other developers (D76, Xtol), then adapt the Caffenol time accordingly. It is not fool proof, but it is your best bet if you aren't going to do test rolls.

If your only ideal is to use home-made developer, I can give you the formula for Parodinal, which is better in the sense that the ingredients in pure enough form are cheaper and easier to get hold of, and the development times for Tri-X even at elevated temperature are much better established than for Caffenol.

Vinegar as stop bath is fine, but even a proper water wash (three cycles at least) before fixing is perfectly adequate to stop development. Of course you will dilute the vinegar ten-fold or so if you go that route. Another perfectly fine stop bath is a weak solution of citric acid. I'd go for 10 g/L for the two films you want to develop.

To start out developing your very first rolls of film with almost none of the correct materials for doing so is inviting disappointment.

It might help to know where (which country) you are in; then it might be possible to suggest places to get the correct ingredients for Caffenol, or even where you might get commercial developers from Kodak or Ilford.

pdeeh + dorff

you are being very nice
the OP has none of the right ingredients ..
at least he's not using fruit fresh, chalk and esrpesso ..

OP
in order to process your film in caffenol c you need ALL the right ingredients
and ENOUGH of the ingredients to make it work.
and rather than seawater, i would hunt down some fixer / "hyps" because rather than
"stabilize" your film you should actually fix them ... or they willeventually give you trouble.
you need cheap robusta coffee ( the cheapest instant you canfind )
you need washing soda ( or baking soda that you purge the moisture out by heating, and converting it to washing soda )
and you need a bunch of vit c.
if you don't have all 3 you won't process any of your film ( and the sea water fixer takes days, not minutes to work ).

im a caffenol c fanatic, love it, its pretty much all i use, but if i didn't originally use the right ingredients i wouldn't be still using it
because it wouldn't have worked and i would have been disappointed ...

so ...
find the right stuff and we'll be more than happy to help !

good luck !
john
caffenoled for 7 or so years

jnanian said:

im a caffenol c fanatic, love it, its pretty much all i use, but if i didn't originally use the right ingredients i wouldn't be still using it
because it wouldn't have worked and i would have been disappointed ...

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John, you are right. We're trying to make the best of a losing battle here. Arguably a lot better would be to have the films commercially developed, or try to find a B/W film shooter in the vicinity that can maybe help, either with the development or just with some basic chemicals. If the OP were in South Africa, I would gladly mail him a basic Caffenol starter kit, with chemicals ready-weighed and packaged, but mailing powders overseas has its problems. It is fun and all to develop films with kitchen ingredients, but I would not start there having nothing to compare against, i.e. a reference of some sorts.

OP: If you tell us where you live, we might be able to source a supplier for you. If you are in Europe, I know personally of at least three mail order companies with very reasonable shipping tariffs that will supply you with everything you need, if there isn't a local retail store with at least the basics.

dorff said:

John, you are right. We're trying to make the best of a losing battle here. Arguably a lot better would be to have the films commercially developed, or try to find a B/W film shooter in the vicinity that can maybe help, either with the development or just with some basic chemicals. If the OP were in South Africa, I would gladly mail him a basic Caffenol starter kit, with chemicals ready-weighed and packaged, but mailing powders overseas has its problems. It is fun and all to develop films with kitchen ingredients, but I would not start there having nothing to compare against, i.e. a reference of some sorts.

OP: If you tell us where you live, we might be able to source a supplier for you. If you are in Europe, I know personally of at least three mail order companies with very reasonable shipping tariffs that will supply you with everything you need, if there isn't a local retail store with at least the basics.

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exactly !

there is a person in europe, who like me and you, sends pre packaged caffenol kits to people, so there is no worry involved.

caffenol is a blast, but not when one uses the wrong "stuff" it just becomes a disappointment and negativity is a plague ...
if the OP lived in the US i'd ship him the ingredients too ( even fixer )

at least he's not using fruit fresh, chalk and esrpesso ..

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What? Those don't work? I swear I saw you using that stuff last time we met, John!

and you need a bunch of vit c.
if you don't have all 3 you won't process any of your film.

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Actually, the vitamin C helps with contrast, but coffee and washing soda will work as a low-contrast developer without it.

Whiteymorange said:

What? Those don't work? I swear I saw you using that stuff last time we met, John!



Actually, the vitamin C helps with contrast, but coffee and washing soda will work as a low-contrast developer without it.

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naah never used fresh fruit, thats crazy!
i might have toyed with vit c alkaselzer but i chickened out

but whitey it wont be caffenol C

Though i have never developped, i forgot to mention: I'll be aided by a friend of mine, who is a photographer for more than 30 years, and he's used to develop films, he even had his own lab, but i don't know if he have any experience with caffenol.

The Delta-STD formula (as well the dev times) seems to be the same for all ISO 400 B&W films of silver halide emulsion.

I think i can get a room at 20° C, the only problem is that i can't get the powder vitamin C, i live in Brazil, buying it from other country would be much expensive (even if i find it on the drugsotre, it'll be a imported product). I'll see if i can get any binder-free source of vitamin C. Even the effervescent tablets contain binders?

And, if i were to buy a kit, i would certainly use the proper commercial chemicals for developping, not caffenol kits.

I'll check for sodium carbonate at the Wall-Mart, they some times keep products that are uncommon here (as washing soda, which is not used for more than a decade here), and i'll also check in the pool material store, it seems they use it to control the pH of water in pools.

If i can't find it in any of those, i'll just burn sodium bicarbonate into sodium carbonate.

The American online photographic store B&H has a dedicated site for Brazil:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=changeLanguge&Q=&ul=P&umse=0

pdeeh said:

The American online photographic store B&H has a dedicated site for Brazil:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=changeLanguge&Q=&ul=P&umse=0

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Now I'm just jealous. That's so not fair. Anyway, OP, if I were you I'd just get the basics from them. It looks very reasonable to me.