Caffenol and saline fixing in color films

[Guilherme Franco]

Hi. I know that caffenol doesn't work well with colour film, maybe because the inner layers don't get properly developed.

Anyway, i tried using caffenol in a roll of Kodak Colorplus ISO 200. I used it normally, and then i developed in cafenol C-L

The formula was:

1- 8g waterfree Sodium Carbonate (originally wasn't waterfree, but i let it oven in 200°C for 4 hours, mixing at each 1 hour)
2- 5g Pure powder Vitamic C
3- 20g Strong and cheap Instant Coffee
4- 13g iodized kitchen salt (replacing the Potassium Bromide)
5- 500ml filtered water

I dissolved in the order of the list, for more than half an hour, then i filtered it, and wait for more half an hour to clear any micro-bubbles

I pre-washed the film with one drop of dishwasher and water to clean any dust, then i gave it a round of pure water to remove the dishwasher, and then let it presoak by 10 mins with another round of water.

Then i poured out the water, poured in the developer and stand-developed by 70 mins, with gentle agitation on the start and more 2 gentle agitations at each 20 mins.

After that, i poured the developer out and made 7 rounds of washing, 5 mins each:

1 - Pure water, constant agitation
2 - Pure water, 3 gentle inversions
3 - Water and vinager, 3 gentle inversions
4 - Pure water, 3 gentle inversions
5 - Water and one drop dish washer, 3 gentle inversions
6 - Pure water, 3 gentle inversions
7 - Pure water, 3 gentle inversions

After all the washing, the film was secure to be checked. I removed it and gave it a look. All the exposures looked fine, i could clearly see every image on it, but the film was still opaque. Anyway, i did it pretty fast to avoid any kind of fading.

Then i started to fix with saline solution. I made an completely saturated salt-water solution, by mixing salt with hot water until saturation, and then letting it cool down (making it saturate even more, decanting more salt on the bottom).

I removed the top water with a spoon, without taking any salt powder, so i wouldn't have to filter it.

I left it for 30 hours fixing with sporadic and gentle agitation, and now i checked it.

The film is turning clear, but the problem is: The images are vanishing.

What's going wrong? In B&W film the images didn't vanish, thought the surely lose opacity.

The film is not completely fixed yet. Should i stop the fixing, or should i let it fix for more hours?

Thanks

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Sodium chloride is NOT a fixing agent. If it were then no one would use sodium thiosulfate. This was all explained in a long thread.

 

[Guilherme Franco]

Many people, including me, sucessfully used salt as a fixing agent. Using a strong saline solution, through 2 days or more, the film does get fixed. A guy even tested exposing the film to direct and strong sunlight by 5 followed days, and the film didn't fade.

 

[pdeeh]

Guilherme, I read some good advice at FLickr about this kind of experimentation: You have to be your own Kodak/Ilford research laboratory.

As you are following your own rules, only tangentially related to normal development practice, and don't appear to be interested in following the advice you have already been given in your other two threads on similar subjects, you have to be prepared to work out your own solutions.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Guilherme, I read some good advice at FLickr about this kind of experimentation: You have to be your own Kodak/Ilford research laboratory.

As you are following your own rules, only tangentially related to normal development practice, and don't appear to be interested in following the advice you have already been given in your other two threads on similar subjects, you have to be prepared to work out your own solutions.

Amen

 

[removed account4]

hi guilherme

good luck learning about this. i hope if you find the answers you come back here and post them !
if it is any help, i processed some kodacolor film a week or 2 ago in split sumatranol130 and ansco130 ..
my methods are a bit unorthodox but what i did was this

brewed coffee ( photographer's roast sumatra beans )
11 scoops ( 22 tablespoons ) / 6 "cups" of water in a perkolator.
i added cold water to dilute to 1L AND cool down.
i added about 1 babyfood ( around 4oz ) container of washing soda
( probably is getting waterlogged by now )
i stirred well
i added some vit c
it foamed and foamed
i stirred until the washing soda dissolved
i added "a shake" ( about 1 oz ) of 16month old stock ansco130

i let sit ...

i get the stock bottle of ansco130 and 1:8 with tap water.
pre-wet my film 1 min, tap tank pour out water
put developer ( a130 ) in my film tank
agitate 1 full min + 10seconds
then 10seconds
for 4 minutes ( of development )
i pour developer out and add sumatranol130 in it.
i agitate constantly ( lazy 8s ) for 4 full minutes
rinse until water is clear, then fix.

i don't use the salt water ( although i have it )
mainly because i don't have a few days to wait for my film to stabilize but i hear it works.
more power to you if it works for you !
i don't know what the issues you are having are related to. maybe the developer isn't strong enough?
maybe your exposures aren't heavy enough? maybe something else ... not sure
if you can get to a swimming pool /spa supply place you might be able to find some
sodium thiosulfate there, its used as a chlorine shock ... and if you do
you can always repeat your development of this film exactly the same way but with hypo as your fix
to see if it is indeed your saline fixing/stabilizing solution and not something else ..

i've attached a couple from the roll i processed ...
they are a teeny bit dense, and that is probably from the mask
that's ok im not too worried about it ...
( seacoast on the left marsh and weeds )
3 kids on a photo safari (on left with a agfa camera, middle with olympus stylus right with a nikon )

 

[Rudeofus]

There's a good chance that the silver image in color film has much lower contrast. As you probably know the dyes amplify the image, and since your caffenol brew doesn't form dyes, you are left with a weak silver image.

About your Sodium Chloride fixer: it is very weak, even compared to dilute and overused Thiosulfate, but evidently it is your choice to do it that way. A few things could improve your likelihood of success:

• Multi bath fixing: you could try changing the Sodium Chloride bath twice a day. The first bath will become saturated with Silver, while your film lets go of some silver halide. The next bath will be fresh again and have less work to do. With enough patience and Sodium Chloride you will eventually fix any film.
• Choice of film: modern emulsions have more Silver Iodide, which is a lot harder to fix than Silver Bromide. I think all color film is "modern" in this sense, there may be some older B&W emulsions that will be easier to fix. With Sodium Chloride fixer I would therefore stay away from all color film (C41, E6) and avoid T-grain emulsions (TMAX, Neopan, Delta).