Caffeic Acid-fill of beans

aRolleiBrujo · Jul 24, 2014

Ilford DELTA 400 120
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Ilford DELTA 3200 PROF 120 FILM
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Kodak TX 120 (TRI-X PAN 400)
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Delta 1 6" DARKROOM THERMOMETER
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Ilford PAN F PLUS 120
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Rollei/AGFA ROLLEI RPX 25 120 SIZE
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Ilford DELTA 100 PRO 120
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Ilford FP4 PLUS 120
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aRolleiBrujo · Jul 24, 2014

Ilford RAPID FIXER 500ml
B&H# ILRF500ML : Mfr# 1984253
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aRolleiBrujo · Jul 24, 2014

i hope this is right for caffenol! Ilford RAPID FIXER 500ml

removed account4 · Jul 24, 2014

aRolleiBrujo said:
i hope this is right for caffenol! Ilford RAPID FIXER 500ml

i hate to be the one to suggest this, because i am a fan of using coffee and all that ..
but since it is your first effort in processing film &c ..
why don't you use a tried and true well known and working developer to get your feet wet
and once you get the hang of getting your film to come out like you want ... then
experiment and dabble with stuff like caffenol and other mad scientist developers.
caffenol is great, don't get me wrong, but there are a lot of things that can go wrong
( bad coffee, bad sodium carbonate, bad vit c ) ... and then it might be the way you
load film, agitate it &c ...

there are a lot great middle of the road, developers you can use, d76 ( if you want to mix it yourself )
sprint film developer, ilford ID-11, as well as others you can pick up at b+h or freestyle &c ...

not that i am trying to discourage you in using my favorite developer, but ... it can be kind of tricky
and processing film the first handful of times is tricky enough as it is ...

don't forget to have fun !
john

aRolleiBrujo · Jul 24, 2014

jnanian said:
i hate to be the one to suggest this, because i am a fan of using coffee and all that ..
but since it is your first effort in processing film &c ..
why don't you use a tried and true well known and working developer to get your feet wet
and once you get the hang of getting your film to come out like you want ... then
experiment and dabble with stuff like caffenol and other mad scientist developers.
caffenol is great, don't get me wrong, but there are a lot of things that can go wrong
( bad coffee, bad sodium carbonate, bad vit c ) ... and then it might be the way you
load film, agitate it &c ...

there are a lot great middle of the road, developers you can use, d76 ( if you want to mix it yourself )
sprint film developer, ilford ID-11, as well as others you can pick up at b+h or freestyle &c

You may be on to something! I hadn't given that a thought since assuming caffenol would be easier of them all. It's ok though I don't mind failure I'm very good at it. Thanks for the suggestion and looking out for me!

removed account4 · Jul 24, 2014

aRolleiBrujo said:
jnanian said:

i hate to be the one to suggest this, because i am a fan of using coffee and all that ..
but since it is your first effort in processing film &c ..
why don't you use a tried and true well known and working developer to get your feet wet
and once you get the hang of getting your film to come out like you want ... then
experiment and dabble with stuff like caffenol and other mad scientist developers.
caffenol is great, don't get me wrong, but there are a lot of things that can go wrong
( bad coffee, bad sodium carbonate, bad vit c ) ... and then it might be the way you
load film, agitate it &c ...

there are a lot great middle of the road, developers you can use, d76 ( if you want to mix it yourself )
sprint film developer, ilford ID-11, as well as others you can pick up at b+h or freestyle &c

Click to expand...

You may be on to something! I hadn't given that a thought since assuming caffenol would be easier of them all. It's ok though I don't mind failure I'm very good at it. Thanks for the suggestion and looking out for me!

Click to expand...

as long as you know it might not work the way you expect ..., and sometimes it is a science experiment
after all exposing film, making memories, photographs &c takes effort, much more effort than processing it ...

aRolleiBrujo · Jul 24, 2014

Michael R 1974 said:
This is a fine, general purpose, non hardening rapid fixer suitable for nearly any application. If something goes wrong with any of the films you bought, this fixer isn't the problem.

Thank you very much for letting me know, I appreciate the time, and explanation! Happy photography! -Americo

removed account4 · Jul 27, 2014

pleasure is mine !
maybe the 2nd or 3rd time processing film , but use something tradional the first time to assure yourself your technique works

and if you are still interested i can sell you a when kit.

good luck !

mohmad khatab · Apr 24, 2020

jnantz said:
the link speaks about Trigonelline ...
but some of those things in the article that also contain Trigonelline
have been used/attempted to use as a film developer ( i think darkroomexperimente did those ingredients in his/ her qwest to develop )
and they failed ... besides it says it is in arabica coffee,
and arabica coffee fails as a developer, for coffee to develop
film it has to be robusta coffee, there is a difference between the two varieties.
and one of he biggest stumbling blocks fiest time caffenol users have
is using the wrong kind ( arabica ) beans...

alan said he used arabica instant, but chances are that it was a blend of arabica and robusta
wih a higher content of arabica sp they called it arabica .. like the 7-11 near me sells KONA blend it might have a little kona in there
but it is mostly something else since it is 77cents a 58 oz cup
and kona costs about 100$ a lb. ( or did when my work sold it ), and it processed his film so it had robusta in it .. just like " espresso coffee"
( not espresso roast which describes the roast ) espresso often times contains
robusta beans so the shot has seed (bottom) body (the shot) and krema (foam)
pure arabica often times does not have krema after pressured-boiled-water
is pumped through it ...

Does this mean that Arabic coffee will not work?
I didn't try it - but I was about to experiment until I came across this article

removed account4 · Apr 24, 2020

mohmad khatab said:
Does this mean that Arabic coffee will not work?
I didn't try it - but I was about to experiment until I came across this article

hi mohmad khatab:
some have had luck with regular arabica coffee beans, ( I have't ! ). its usually the cheapest instant or beans you can find that work the best. The developer seems to work best with Robusta beans, not sure why, there are chemical ingredients in Robusta beans that are different than Arabica, for example arabica bushes get "coffee rust" something that attacks and kills the plant, robusta plants are immune. Besides no point in wasting delicious coffee to DRINK with rot-gut to make developer with

have fun !
John

mohmad khatab · Apr 24, 2020

jnantz said:
hi mohmad khatab:
some have had luck with regular arabica coffee beans, ( I have't ! ). its usually the cheapest instant or beans you can find that work the best. The developer seems to work best with Robusta beans, not sure why, there are chemical ingredients in Robusta beans that are different than Arabica, for example arabica bushes get "coffee rust" something that attacks and kills the plant, robusta plants are immune. Besides no point in wasting delicious coffee to DRINK with rot-gut to make developer with

have fun !
John

This type of coffee is not easily available in Egypt, and even if it is available it will be very expensive.

removed account4 · Apr 24, 2020

No instant coffee there in Egypt ?
(instant = you just add a tablespoon of powder into water and it dissolves )
looking for my jezvah/ibreki
J

redbandit · Dec 27, 2022

Alan Johnson said:
Hi John,
I used Arabica instant because that is what I drink. IDK which is the best type for Caffenol.
My caffeic acid recipe was Reinhold's Caffenol-C-M with the 40g/L instant coffee omitted and replaced by 4g/L caffeic acid.
I thought Reinhold's formula produces very nice negatives, it seems to have a good reputation among Caffenol users.
btw, caffeic acid is an off-white powder.

Of COURSE your not going to get the same results by reducing the active ingredient found in the coffee by using a mere 4 grams of caffeic acid.

1 does not know the actual amount of caffeic acid found in each 40g/l of instant coffee as each CONTAINER of instant coffee will be impacted by having a different level if ingredients in it.

2. Its why they say in the caffenol cookbook, if you change the LOT date of instant coffe or brand, you have to restart at zero..

fs999 · Dec 28, 2022

redbandit said:
2. Its why they say in the caffenol cookbook, if you change the LOT date of instant coffe or brand, you have to restart at zero..

That's why you better use cheap instant coffee, they never change their recipe and they are often the same with different brands...

redbandit · Dec 28, 2022

fs999 said:
That's why you better use cheap instant coffee, they never change their recipe and they are often the same with different brands...

Thats not actually true at all. MOST companies use the cheapest sources for their beans. The only way to get cheaper quality coffee is to go use star bucks from their espresso machine.

But seriously, their is something inside that works, and you can derive your own caffeic acid from alot of things. However the amount of produce required is astronomical.

I once read you can boil a 10 gallon storage container worth of basil leaves, and when you reduce the goo down to about a gallon it will work fine. But who has the time or the basil...

Buying your own online is expensive, that one place on amazon is 50$ pluse 20$ shipping, the big chemical houses are far far far far more expensive hovering about 400$ per GRAM... But the chemical houses do not seem to have an interest in selling to anyone who is not a staff member of a research lab or hospital

fs999 · Dec 29, 2022

redbandit said:
Thats not actually true at all. MOST companies use the cheapest sources for their beans. The only way to get cheaper quality coffee is to go use star bucks from their espresso machine.

That's not true. No name brands are cheaper than brands (nescafé, starbucks, Jacobs, Hag, Maxwell, etc) and are often made by the same producer. I'm buying Cora instant coffee 300g for 3.50 € and I can make 15 films with it. The important is to use a strong version not a mild.

redbandit · Dec 29, 2022

fs999 said:
That's not true. No name brands are cheaper than brands (nescafé, starbucks, Jacobs, Hag, Maxwell, etc) and are often made by the same producer. I'm buying Cora instant coffee 300g for 3.50 € and I can make 15 films with it. The important is to use a strong version not a mild.

have you ever sat down with a french press and actually made each version of factory ground beans? Have you done the same with instant coffee?

Trust me, they use what ever is cheapest, as there are many times that i have opened them up and when drinking realized they were the "snuff" of the coffee world.
Snuff is that tobacco people like to sniff, its also made with the lowest grade of tobacco possible, the rib section of the leaf.

Now, i have been drinking coffe for almost 30 years now. I know good coffee and bad. The coffee companies are NOT doing their job quality wise. Folgers for instant is mixing its different blends together in same can. One minute im drinking my decaf, and then the next pot im suddenly drinking their level 5 columbian coffee.

relistan · Dec 29, 2022

redbandit said:
Of COURSE your not going to get the same results by reducing the active ingredient found in the coffee by using a mere 4 grams of caffeic acid.

1 does not know the actual amount of caffeic acid found in each 40g/l of instant coffee as each CONTAINER of instant coffee will be impacted by having a different level if ingredients in it.

2. Its why they say in the caffenol cookbook, if you change the LOT date of instant coffe or brand, you have to restart at zero..

Do you have something constructive to add to this conversation? Alan explained the methodology for the experiment. Since you seem to somehow know that a cup of coffee contains more than 4g of caffeic acid, what amount should be tested? Better yet… why don’t you give the experiment a shot and explain how you arrived at the better numbers so others can build on it?

redbandit · Dec 29, 2022

relistan said:
Do you have something constructive to add to this conversation? Alan explained the methodology for the experiment. Since you seem to somehow know that a cup of coffee contains more than 4g of caffeic acid, what amount should be tested? Better yet… why don’t you give the experiment a shot and explain how you arrived at the better numbers so others can build on it?

the caffeic acid isnt the sole active ingredient in the coffee

Alan Johnson · Dec 29, 2022

Our later ponderings on this topic are here [Dec 22]:

Caffenol active substances

I’ve been experimenting with Caffenol for a while, mostly using Fompan 400, and gotten pretty good results. I’n curious about what ingredient does what? Say I wanted to make the solution stronger, would I add more of everything, just more coffee? More soda? Merry Christmas everyone!

www.photrio.com

We don't have good info on more precise analysis of caffenol as usually prepared.
Chlorogenic acids, various CQAs ,caffeic acid, quinicic acid are amongst the contenders

fs999 · Dec 30, 2022

redbandit said:
Folgers for instant is mixing its different blends together in same can. One minute im drinking my decaf, and then the next pot im suddenly drinking their level 5 columbian coffee.

You think for less than 10 € the Kg of instant coffee they would use Columbian coffee ?!

redbandit · Dec 30, 2022

fs999 said:
You think for less than 10 € the Kg of instant coffee they would use Columbian coffee ?!

its even in their regular ground coffee. last few years its been a crap shoot what you get.

Its to the point that they are either going " oh wait we need to can up 10,000 lbs of columbian, but only have half-caf labelled containers... lets just use those" to "oh, we have half a ton of columbian breakfast left in the bin, lets just dump the ground up decaf in and keep on running things"

John Wiegerink · Dec 30, 2022

redbandit said:
its even in their regular ground coffee. last few years its been a crap shoot what you get.

Its to the point that they are either going " oh wait we need to can up 10,000 lbs of columbian, but only have half-caf labelled containers... lets just use those" to "oh, we have half a ton of columbian breakfast left in the bin, lets just dump the ground up decaf in and keep on running things"

I don't know if the major companies could get away with doing that, but I could be wrong. I'm sure there might be allowance for some blend carryover from the grind machine, but what you are talking about would be totally false advertising a product.
I just buy Eight O'clock beans and grind my own. Perfect cup every time. Oh, I'm Dutch and have been drinking coffee for 67 years. Yes, us Dutch know a good cup of coffee when we smell and taste it.

redbandit · Dec 30, 2022

John Wiegerink said:
I don't know if the major companies could get away with doing that, but I could be wrong. I'm sure there might be allowance for some blend carryover from the grind machine, but what you are talking about would be totally false advertising a product.
I just buy Eight O'clock beans and grind my own. Perfect cup every time. Oh, I'm Dutch and have been drinking coffee for 67 years. Yes, us Dutch know a good cup of coffee when we smell and taste it.

trust me, when one is caffeine sensitive, when the decaf suddenly becomes regular, you notice.

Caffeic Acid-fill of beans

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