C41 Rollei kit confusion (first timer)

trythis · Jul 23, 2015

I just received a Rollei compard kit and thought I was getting the old Digibase C41 with separate bleach and fix.....

Very different kits by the directions:

What I thought I was getting:
http://www.macodirect.de/download/C41_InstructionManual.pdf

What I got:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/stati...lei/C-41_Maco-Set_DE-EN-IT_08012013_final.pdf

Are the chemicals the same? The kit I got shows mixing bleach/fix a with bleach fix B, which to me sounds like Blix.

The old Digibase looks like bleach and fixer are separate, this is more desirable, yes?

Can I just use part A as bleach and part B as fix?

Confused as a newbie and sorry if this has been dealt with before over and over.

pentaxuser · Jul 23, 2015

trythis said:
Are the chemicals the same? The kit I got shows mixing bleach/fix a with bleach fix B, which to me sounds like Blix.

The old Digibase looks like bleach and fixer are separate, this is more desirable, yes?

Can I just use part A as bleach and part B as fix?

.

There seems to be a lot of disagreement about the efficacy of blix v bleach and fix, based on a lot of previous threads/post but it would seem that blix is OK provided you are conservative with its use i.e. it might mean that to be on the safe side you actually use blix for fewer films that even the manufacturer suggests

Others seem to be quite relaxed about blix and after many years of blix do not report any problems. The problem is that it might be years before the film shows any signs of problems that can be laid at the door of blix.

pentaxuser

trythis · Jul 23, 2015

Yeah, aware of the controversy but want to know if the bottles are just bleach in bottle A and fix in the bottle B and they just want you to mix them onto blix to save a step in the process.

Typos made on a tiny phone...

pentaxuser · Jul 23, 2015

If it isn't clear from the instructions I'd ask the makers. Otherwise anyone answering is speculating which isn't what you want. I'd be wary of assuming that A and B are simply bleach and fix and can be used separately. Surely if this was the case the instructions would say that there were bleach and fix which can be used separately but the maker recommends that to save time they are combined.

pentaxuser

Gerald C Koch · Jul 23, 2015

Look up the MSDS for the kit. There should be a link to it on the sellers web site. Every serious photographer who does his own processing should be familiar with the solutions they use. This information will tell you what chemicals are in which bottles. However things may not be neatly divided in parts A and B of the bleach-fix. If this is so then you must do things as the directions tell you.

Rudeofus · Jul 24, 2015

trythis said:
Yeah, aware of the controversy but want to know if the bottles are just bleach in bottle A and fix in the bottle B and they just want you to mix them onto blix to save a step in the process.

Yes, this kit is a classical BLIX kit. You use CD parts A, B and C plus water to make the colour developer, and you use BLIX parts A and B plus water to make BLIX. Exact mixing instrauctions are given on page 6 of that freestyle pdf document.

You can not use BX parts A and B alone to make separate bleach and fixer, but (there was a url link here which no longer exists) (which you apparently found already) gives you detailed instructions and the list of extra chemicals required.

Rudeofus · Jul 24, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
Look up the MSDS for the kit.

Here is the MSDS. If this MSDS is accurate, this would be the first BLIX kit I ever saw which uses Ammonium Ferric PDTA as oxidizer. Please can someone tell me colour and appearance of this BX part A ?

trythis · Jul 24, 2015

Responded to the other thread.

Typos made on a tiny phone...

Gerald C Koch · Jul 24, 2015

For some reason the MSDS given fails to list the chemicals in part B of the blix.

Joel_L · Jul 24, 2015

I don't think I'd worry about the BLIX. I am using this kit and it works fine. What I do is put the mixed BLIX in a large bottle and shake it well before use. I do this to oxygenate it.

Joel

trythis · Jul 24, 2015

What does oxygenating it achieve?

Typos made on a tiny phone...

Joel_L · Jul 24, 2015

The bleach needs oxygen to do its job. Some have used bubblers, I found shaking in a big bottle works well. I have also gotten by with just mixing the blix and using it, but after having a few issues on a small handful of rolls, I took to shaking. I do this for C41 and E6.

trythis · Jul 24, 2015

Joel_L said:
The bleach needs oxygen to do its job. Some have used bubblers, I found shaking in a big bottle works well. I have also gotten by with just mixing the blix and using it, but after having a few issues on a small handful of rolls, I took to shaking. I do this for C41 and E6.

Good to know. Thanks!

Rudeofus · Jul 25, 2015

The term "bleaching" in photography means oxidation of metallic Silver through some oxidizer: Ag ----> Ag+ + e- while leaving the rest of our film (the gelatin, colour dyes, ...) intact. Obviously the oxidizer (in our case Ferric ions complexed by EDTA, PDTA or Cyanide) gets used up in the process: Fe+++ + e- ---> Fe++. Under these conditions bleach would use its activity very quickly, because a mixture of Fe++ and Fe+++ is a much weaker oxidizer than Fe+++ alone.

Fortunately we have plenty of Oxygen in our atmosphere, and aerial Oxygen will restore Fe++ back to Fe+++, giving our bleach phenomenal capacity, limited only by slowly depleting Bromide levels: Ag+ + Br- ----> AgBr (insoluble). Under normal amateur conditions this bleach restoration happens automatically. I usually fill half a liter of bleach into a bottle that can hold a whole liter, leaving space for air. If I process a few rolls of film in a row, I shake that bottle vigorously between runs. Commercial labs which process roll after roll after roll have to bubble their bleach tank with air to keep it in shape, this was not necessary for me so far (processing no more than 3-5 rolls per evening).

RPC · Jul 25, 2015

PE has noted that a better restoration of bleach occurs if ammonium bromide is added in addition to oxidation. Also, shaking a blix will oxidize the fixer part, likely shortening its useful life.

Rudeofus · Jul 25, 2015

RPC said:
PE has noted that a better restoration of bleach occurs if ammonium bromide is added in addition to oxidation.

That's the whole essence of (there was a url link here which no longer exists). BX part A and water alone won't bleach silver, a strong counter anion is needed.

RPC said:
Also, shaking a blix will oxidize the fixer part, likely shortening its useful life.

Nobody proposed aeration of BLIX, but with bleaches it works miracles.

RPC · Jul 25, 2015

Rudeofus said:
Nobody proposed aeration of BLIX, but with bleaches it works miracles.

Joel_L says he shakes his blix in post #10 and #12.

Joel_L · Jul 25, 2015

I do shake my BLIX, E6 and C41. Maybe there is no ill effect to the fix because I do all my stuff one shot.

Joel

RPC said:
Joel_L says he shakes his blix in post #10 and #12.

Rudeofus · Jul 27, 2015

We could settle this question (bubbling or not bubbling BLIX) once and for all by asking lab people whether RA-4 BLIX tanks used aeration or not.

C41 Rollei kit confusion (first timer)

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