C41 developing - Pink/Magenta stain issue on some frames of the film

Aditya Tawate · Dec 18, 2021

PLEASE HELP!
Hi, I've been using Kodak LORR C-41 developing kit to develop color films on my Jobo CPE2 Plus for the past one year. The chemistry that I have is probably expired but worked great till recently until these bold magenta streaks started appearing out of nowhere on the scans. Some marks are so bold that they could be seen on the negative as well. I have tried to read a lot of discussions before posting this but didn't find anything of relevance.

Am I doing something wrong? Or the expired chemsitry it to blame, specifically the developer, bleach or fixer? Has anyone faced such similar issues?

foc · Dec 18, 2021

Can you upload an image of the neg strip, please?
Something like this

Aditya Tawate · Dec 18, 2021

Hey, sure, I can. But I'm out of my lab space right now. Will definitely attach the images of the negatives tomorrow morning.

Aditya Tawate · Dec 18, 2021

To give you an idea, there's no suspicious activity outside the frame. For example, no dark spots near or weird colors outside the frame. Although, you can see these pink marks in the frame if seen carefully, these look lighter than the sky color, so it's recognizable that way

Sirius Glass · Dec 18, 2021

Wash times?
Have used Stop Bath after the color developer? It can help stop crossover, which of course this is not.

Aditya Tawate · Dec 18, 2021

I use all kodak recommended times -

Developer - 3:15 min
Bleach - 6:30 min
Wash - 3:15 min
Fixer - 6:30 min
Wash - 3:15 min
A couple of more wash cycles before wetting agent.

No, i don't use a stop bath step between Developer and Bleach. Would that stop this issue?

Sirius Glass · Dec 18, 2021

Aditya Tawate said:
I use all kodak recommended times -

Developer - 3:15 min
Bleach - 6:30 min
Wash - 3:15 min
Fixer - 6:30 min
Wash - 3:15 min
A couple of more wash cycles before wetting agent.

No, i don't use a stop bath step between Developer and Bleach. Would that stop this issue?

Would that stop this issue? no, but it is a way to stop crossover.

Do not use a wetting agent; use the rinse provided with the chemicals. Wetting agents can introduce other problems.

If it persists, try extending the washing times.

Aditya Tawate · Dec 18, 2021

Okay, i have the stabilizer. Shall i use that? I stopped using it as it was leaving a weird sticky residue on my film.

Sirius Glass · Dec 18, 2021

Aditya Tawate said:
Okay, i have the stabilizer. Shall i use that? I stopped using it as it was leaving a weird sticky residue on my film.

I have not had that problem. Of course make sure that it is properly mixed. I invite others to jump in with recommendations and suggestions.

Aditya Tawate · Dec 18, 2021

Thank you for sharing your insights. So no wetting agent? Have you had any issues with color film especially when using a wetting agent.

I have read a lot of flow marks, surge marks, bromide drag, etc. But none of those examples or images resemble the issue I'm facing with my film.

Sirius Glass · Dec 18, 2021

Aditya Tawate said:
Thank you for sharing your insights. So no wetting agent? Have you had any issues with color film especially when using a wetting agent.

I have read a lot of flow marks, surge marks, bromide drag, etc. But none of those examples or images resemble the issue I'm facing with my film.

The final rinse has preservative in it and wetting agent does not. Photo Engineer, PE, a retired Kodak film and development engineer, had posted threads on this subject on Photrio.

Aditya Tawate · Dec 18, 2021

Oh okay. I think I've read one of those threads. Will definitely look into it again. Thanks for the reference!

Sirius Glass · Dec 18, 2021

See the other thread about using the lift for more consistent pouring.

sillo · Dec 18, 2021

You should try and do a test run with a stop bath. Should also help extend the life of your bleach a little, which is nice considering it's the most expensive part of the flexicolor setup.

I also highly recommend using the flexicolor final rinse.

Sirius Glass · Dec 18, 2021

Oh, yes

Welcome to ~~APUG~~ Photrio!!

richyd · Dec 18, 2021

Be careful when you are hand pouring into Jobo tanks. The temptation is to get the solutions in as quickly as possible but in doing so you can fill overfill the trough/basin and then it overflows over the rim and onto the film. Be sure to adjust the pouring rate to ensure that the liquid only enters the chamber via the tube. I learned of this from another forum some time ago and it fixed my streaks. I also use a pre-wet.

MattKing · Dec 18, 2021

For current film, use final rinse. For current film, do not use stabilizer.
If you aren't using Kodak branded chemicals, the names might be different.

Tony Moreno · Jan 23, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
The final rinse has preservative in it and wetting agent does not. Photo Engineer, PE, a retired Kodak film and development engineer, had posted threads on this subject on Photrio.

Do you know of any problems using the Kodak final rinse and stabilizer, followed by a wetting agent step? I wasn’t sure if the final rinse stabilized step provided similar wetting agent streak resist properties so I stilled followed everything up with a photo-flo step.

BMbikerider · Jan 23, 2022

Those marks look very much like chemical contamination. Where the come from must be from a tank that is not properly washed out after the las use where some blix may be still present.

MattKing · Jan 23, 2022

Tony Moreno said:
Do you know of any problems using the Kodak final rinse and stabilizer, followed by a wetting agent step? I wasn’t sure if the final rinse stabilized step provided similar wetting agent streak resist properties so I stilled followed everything up with a photo-flo step.

The wetting agent will wash away the anti-bacterial benefits of the Final Rinse, and merely duplicate the surfactant benefits of the Final Rinse.

Tony Moreno · Jan 24, 2022

MattKing said:
The wetting agent will wash away the anti-bacterial benefits of the Final Rinse, and merely duplicate the surfactant benefits of the Final Rinse.

Thank you very much Matt. In the future I will refrain from using a Photo-flo step at the end.

koraks · Jan 24, 2022

richyd said:
you can fill overfill the trough/basin and then it overflows over the rim and onto the film.

Note that not all jobo tanks are the same. E.g. the 15xx series doesn't have a cup that buffers the liquid before the tank is tilted horizontally; the liquid goes right into the main space of the tank on pouring in. Your comment is mostly relevant when using Jobo print drums.
It's really best to pour in as quickly as possible with most/all Jobo FILM drums.

The problem presented here is not related to final wash, wetting agent etc. It's either a contamination issue as @BMbikerider suggested, and I also second the idea of @Sirius Glass and @sillo to try a stop bath. 1% acetic acid works well here; the concentration is not critical at all.
If a prewash is used, try leaving it out.
If no prewash is used, try one.
(Some people report best results with a prewash, some without. I'd rather leave that can of worms shut and invite anyone to try what works for them...)

BMbikerider · Jan 24, 2022

I don't use a stop bath between the developer and the bleach but I do 2 x 30 seconds rinse baths with the tank in the Jobo That is for no other reason than to make sure that there is no shock to the film from one chemical to another and to prolong the life of the bleach. If you don't do this a gas is created within the tank and a slight pressure is created and I have had the end cap pop off more than once. At the end of the process I give 6 x 30 second rinses with plain water followed by 1-2 minutes static in the stabilizer. At the end of a session, the tank, spiral, lid, central tube and cap are all washed out completely in plain hot water and set aside to dry. I have never ever, over 39 years colour processing E6 and 29 years for C4i had contamination from carry over of other chemicals.
Because the problems appear on the actual film and not in the print processing, I feel that is where the issue starts.

koraks · Jan 24, 2022

BMbikerider said:
If you don't do this a gas is created within the tank and a slight pressure is created and I have had the end cap pop off more than once

Yeah, I've lost quite a bit of bleach to this. A double rinse like you do should work virtually as well as an acetic stop bath. But of course it prevents the "burping".

drmoss_ca · Jan 25, 2022

MattKing said:
The wetting agent will wash away the anti-bacterial benefits of the Final Rinse, and merely duplicate the surfactant benefits of the Final Rinse.

The stabiliser that comes in C-41 presskits always leaves white residue spots on the film. I can wipe them off the non-emulsion side with some isopropanol, but it is tempting to give a quick dunk in a PhotoFlo solution after the stabiliser.
I've got many years worth of XP2 developed in B&W chemicals that has never seen stabiliser. No signs of fungus even on the oldest (kept in plastic sleeves).

C41 developing - Pink/Magenta stain issue on some frames of the film

Aditya Tawate

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C41 developing - Pink/Magenta stain issue on some frames of the film

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