c330 Mamiya, with 80mm, do I go for 180mm super or 180mm black?

Dear Apug Members,

I have a c330 with 80 mm which takes great photos, I want a portrait lens that flattens the
perspective but is still sharp, I see that there are 3 versions of this lens, a chrome (older version)
black version (newer) and the Super version with red markings....

a) Is there much difference between the 180 mm black versus the 180mm Super Lens?
b) Would one lens be sharper or exhibit more contrast?
c) this is going to be used for portraits, so maybe less contrast is better?
d) Reliability, since they seem to share the same shutter system, I would assume they are alike?
e) Any sample photos taken with either of these lenses would be appreciated.

Many thanks for your input/opinions on this!

Harlequin

I greatly preferred the 250mm over the 180mm lens.

The 250 is the only Mamiya TLR lens that I haven't used.

I have the 180mm Super. It's a good sharp lens. A little longer than usual for portraits. The super vs. black you get auto-cocking with the super on a 330, the super is also said to be sharper.

The 135 is more of the classic "portrait" lens for this system. I have one or two of them. It's a sharp lens, Tessar design, I believe. It also has the advantage that you can use the same 46mm filters as your 80. (assuming it's the black 80)

The 180mm lens makes the distance look 2.25 closer. The 250mm lens makes the distance look 3.125 closer. I prefer the 250mm lens. I have the 80mm, 150mm and 250mm lenses. I use the 250mm lens much more than the 150mm lens. In fact in rarely use the 150mm lens.

The question you should really ask yourself is "what is my budget", because the 180mm Super sells at significantly higher prices. The lens was radically re-designed and it is slightly sharper and also more compact than its predecessor. It is considered the "state of the art" of Mamiya's lens designing ability for the C system. Personally, I repute it an excellent portrait lens, and (maybe only coincidentally) I have taken with it possibly the best portraits of my life. It is more recent, and in this sense its shutter may be more reliable than that of its predecessors (less years, less operational cycles, less hands that used it, and so on). Should you decide to purchase the "super", check twice that it comes complete with the chromed reinforcement rings on the front threads: the metal is as thin as tinfoil and it would be instantly damaged if the filter threads are not protected in one way or another.

The "standard" 180mm, however, with its long-focus classic triplet derived design, will also qualify as a superb portrait lens. As all lenses with few elements, it has an excellent contrast.

Unless you happen to like over-compressed planes, in my opinion the 250mm is less advisable as a portrait lens for the C system: the camera+lens assembly will get bulky and unbalanced, the focal is too long and more difficult to use handheld, and it has a typical telephoto design which I tend not to use for portraits (it will also have to be cocked manually each time, but this is not a real issue).

Get the SUPER. 250 reputation is not that great, but I have no first-hand experience with it unlike with my 180 SUPER which truly is a great lens. Also mind that 250 might not focus close enough for head and shoulder portraits (205 cm) and there are no extension rings available for this system.

Sirius Glass said:

The 180mm lens makes the distance look 2.25 closer. The 250mm lens makes the distance look 3.125 closer. I prefer the 250mm lens. I have the 80mm, 150mm and 250mm lenses. I use the 250mm lens much more than the 150mm lens. In fact in rarely use the 150mm lens.

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I take it that with "150mm" you mean either the 105mm or the 180mm lens?

Overall condition of the shutter and the optics are the more important factors when buying a used Mamiya TLR lens. So, I'd choose the one that was in better condition.

The 65mm and 105mm were my favorites.

Sirius Glass said:

The 180mm lens makes the distance look 2.25 closer. The 250mm lens makes the distance look 3.125 closer. I prefer the 250mm lens. I have the 80mm, 150mm and 250mm lenses. I use the 250mm lens much more than the 150mm lens. In fact in rarely use the 150mm lens.

Click to expand...

afriman said:

I take it that with "150mm" you mean either the 105mm or the 180mm lens?

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No, 150mm. I shoot Hasselblad, but is a good comparison because Hasselblad and Mamiya Cxxx are both 6x6 and the normal lenses are 80mm.

These are180mm black version hand held (wide open for the indoor shot).

https://www.photrio.com/forum/media/untitled.55738/
https://www.photrio.com/forum/media/untitled.55737/

There are two versions of the black Seiko shutter used on the latter Mamiya C lenses. Although they differ a bit internally, there is no external difference that affects operation. But at this age, wear and tear is more important than specific versions.

The 180 Super does have more contrast and may be a bit sharper than the earlier version. For portraits it probably does not make much difference, as you are going to need to stop down a bit for adequate DoF and be in the optimum aperture for the lens.

All the black Seiko shutter 180mm lenses should auto-cock on C33/C330/C330f/C330s bodies. There are some oddities in the chrome finish Seikosha shutters on 180mm lenses where the levers do not mesh with the auto-cocking lever.

Unless I had a proven need for a 250mm, my choice would be a 180mm Super then a 180mm black, then the 135mm. But I tend to use 55/105/180 as my working set on the Mamiya C, and rarely do portraits.

I own a C220f with the 105 DS lens. I've done some research on the other lenses and this is what I found on the internet. The 180mm Super is said to be the sharpest C lens made and sharper than the original 180. Some people prefer razor sharp high contrast lenses for portraiture and some prefer something a little less sharp with a lower contrast.

You could buy both and sell the one you didn't like for close to what you paid for it. Just consider any money lost as a very cheap rental fee. I've done that lot's of times with used lenses.