C-41 Stabilizer v Final Rinse - and what to use when cross-processing slide in C-41 (

[zsas]

Folks, I have read a bunch of historical Apug postings, but I cant seem to find this answer.

So it looks like Kodak has a "new" final rinse item, like the "old" stabilizer but w/o formalin called Kodak Flexicolor Final Rinse and Replenisher. This is used for new stocks.

Then there is the traditional formalin (stabilizer) and (fungicide) that stops the fungus and others from eating the dyes since the silver has left, and that product is still in production called Kodak Flexicolor stabilizer III & Replenisher

After reading a bunch, it seems that E-6 run slide film needs a stabilizer that contains fomrmalin due to needing stabilization and a fungicide.

So my question is, if one does cross-processing of slide film in C-41 chemistry, what stabilizer would you use? I think I should use Kodak Flexicolor stabilizer III & Replenisher because if I use a new color negative film, it wont harm it and act as a fungicide and wetting agent, stabilization isn’t needed; but if I cross-process slide film in C-41 chems, then I need either E-6 stabilizer or I could use the Kodak Flexicolor stabilizer III & Replenisher because E-6 stabilizer and Kodak Flexicolor stabilizer III & Replenisher since both have formalin, which is needed. Therefore I only need 1 stabilizer if I only use C-41 chems for both slide and negative stock.

Or since I cross-processed slide film in C-41, does it take on the inherent qualities of color negative and therefore not need a stabilizer (i.e. E-6 stabilizer w formalin) because in a chemical sense, it had become “color negative” film due to cross processing…I doubt it but who knows…

I ask because I ran some RVP in my Rollei C-41 kit and wonder if the film was really stabilized or just rinsed and fungicide since the chems I use (Rollei) list only a fungicide as the active ingredient (Benzisothiazolin), I don’t see formalin.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, sorry if my question wasnt coherent and all over the place.

PS my RVP processed in C-41 has some small gunk all over it, so that is why I was considering buying Kodak branded Final Rinse or Stabilizer III. I thought to myself…which one do I get…hence this question. I wonder if that gunk is from the fact that my Rollei stabilizer is a non-formalin based stabilizer and that gunk is un-stabilized particles?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Technically, any E6 film cross processed in C41 will require the OLD Stabilizer with Formalin. OTOH, the use of CD4 in the C41 color developer will worsen image stability of E6 films.

Good luck.

PE

 

[zsas]

Brilliant - thanks Photo Engineer!

 

[Athiril]

Stabilizer III. It is a mix of formaldehyde in solution (formalin) and methyl alcohol. I got some clear bottles of it with yellow caps and some orange bottles of the same stuff the orange bottles state - 107g/L Formaldehyde, 35g/L Methanol.

Also, anyone with a Kodak account can special order you stuff, so you should be able to get your hands on ECN-2 developer (it's inexpensive for the volume), which is CD-3 based (like E-6) if you really wanted to.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Two points here...

1. Stabilizer III is a mix of Formalin + Methanol + Photo Flo 200.
2. The ECN2 developer is very low in stability due to low antioxidant content and it goes bad rapidly when mixed.

PE

 

[Athiril]

Thanks for the clarification.

Mixed developer is supposed to last a few weeks according to the data sheet. Though tap water seems to kill it (regardless of an increased anti-oxidant level). Actually I'll be testing this again tomorrow (finally) with distilled water, and tap water + sodium salicylate.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Salicylate is not the "key" ingredient. In this developer formulation, it is not an antioxidant to any great extent. Hydroxyl Amine Sulfate is the key, but it is left out for some reason, probably having to do with image quality as it competes for dye formation.

PE

 

[Athiril]

PE; I've added both HAS and extra sulphite to it before, it did nothing to prevent death in hours, regardless of anti-oxidant level the kit is still supposed to last mixed up a few weeks. There is no chelatant, so my next guess is the water quality. So my next test was distilled water and tap water + salicylate.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Good luck then.

I have found that HAS is a powerful antioxidant in color developers. (See the US patent by C. Edens and R. Mowrey)

It does cause the pH to drop and the subject of the patent is to improve that aspect. Comparisons using the C-22 developer are made in that patent.

PE

 

[Athiril]

Thanks I'll have a read tomorrow, bed time now .

I eliminated as much as I could, last guess is down to 'whats in my water'.

 

[zsas]

Just got my Kodak Flexicolor III Stabilizer, it says mix the 284ml bottle of stabilizer to make 19 liters of working solution, so that means the stabilizer is 1.49% of the total working solution when mixed to make 19 liters (284/19000=.0149 x 100 = 1.49%)

So my question is can I use this one shot and mix it to order? Say I want 500ml of stabilizer to use one shot, can I mix 492.5ml of water to 7.5ml of the stabilizer?

I ask because mixing up 19L of stabilizer when I think I need a mere 1L a month seems like a lot of working solution to store. Mixing one shot to order sounds like a elegant plan but the label says this is to be diluted then used. I suppose these kind of questions are common since this chemical was not sold with the intention of individuals using it on a small scale.

Any thoughts?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Yes, you can mix it one shot. IDK how long the partly opened bottle of concentrate will keep, but from the data at hand, it probably will keep quite well.

PE