C-41 re-use and storage

[rustyair]

Hi,

I was wondering how many times do you re-use your c-41 soups?

And How do you store them?

 

[brucemuir]

I mix a liter of each of the three steps and replenish.
I use Kodak Flexicolor Replenisher
Dead Link Removed

I strore in FULL 1 litre PET bottles that originally had soda water from the grocery.

 

[kb3lms]

I mix a liter and use for about 12 rolls. After 12 rolls (24 or 36) I toss it and mix new. I have a 750 ml glass bottle for storing the developer and I keep the remainder of the solution in a smaller bottle and replenish from that.

For my concentrates, I use the same kit mentioned above.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I save up 12 to 16 rolls [or equivalent, I use 35mm, 120 and 4"x5"] and process all the film in one and a half or two days and dump the chemicals.

Steve

 

[madgardener]

I use the one liter Unicolor kit from Freestyle, I save up anywhere from 8-12 rolls for processing, then throw the chemicals out.

 

[Athiril]

I replenish with flexicolor, using glass bottles.

 

[markwny]

I mix a liter and use for about 12 rolls. After 12 rolls (24 or 36) I toss it and mix new. I have a 750 ml glass bottle for storing the developer and I keep the remainder of the solution in a smaller bottle and replenish from that.

For my concentrates, I use the same kit mentioned above.

Is there any need to take precautions with the concentrates to prevent oxidation, such as using nitrogen to replace the air in the bottles?

 

[polyglot]

I use the Fuji (rated at 16 rolls/L unless process ISO400+), make up 1L at a go and put the 16 rolls through. Sometimes the developer spends 3mo in the fridge between processes but that's fine as long as there's absolutely no air in the bottle.

See the Film FAQ in my signature and click on C41 for a bunch more info on storing developer.

 

[markwny]

I use the Fuji (rated at 16 rolls/L unless process ISO400+), make up 1L at a go and put the 16 rolls through. Sometimes the developer spends 3mo in the fridge between processes but that's fine as long as there's absolutely no air in the bottle.

See the Film FAQ in my signature and click on C41 for a bunch more info on storing developer.

I read your FAQ as you suggested. Lots of good information, but it left me still wondering about the care of C-41 concentrates. In the FAQ it mentions that most b&w concentrates, e.g. Rodinal, are very stable and require no special treatment. It also says that mixed developer needs to have the oxygen removed from the bottle, and several methods are described. I didn't see anything that explicitly talks about the multi-part concentrates used for C-41 though.

 

[hrst]

Is there any need to take precautions with the concentrates to prevent oxidation, such as using nitrogen to replace the air in the bottles?

Yes, for the developer part that has the CD-4. It will be difficult because it is in a small bottle. If you do not protect it well, it will go bad a lot quicker than mixed solutions would go.

I have gone the route of mixing full 5 liters from a kit at a time and storing it in completely full&squeezed PET bottles in a refrigerator (do not freeze it!). This way, the developer seems to last for about 6 months. You also end up saving time and avoiding possible mixing errors when you mix the whole kit at a time.

Fixer concentrate can go bad too when stored with a lot of air. I have found no problem in just storing it in the fridge, too. Luckily, you can see it visually if your fixer is going bad.

Bleach, OTOH, likes oxygen. It doesn't need it when fresh, but if you are going to overuse the bleach for cost savings, you should allow a lot of air in the bottle and shake it well every once in a while.

I use developer, fixer and final rinse as one-shot, but replenish bleach by discarding half of the old solution, aerating the remaining half, and topping with new. But as I buy kits, I end up getting some extra bleach. But as it keeps forever and as it is the most expensive part; and also the one heaviest to ship, it's good to have some for the future "just in case" . Note that I rotary process in Jobo tanks with the minimum chemistry volumes. If you do the traditional manual agitation, you probably don't want to do one-shot as it would get twice as expensive.

As for storing chemicals in PET bottles, take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdu4cCOrf3I . It is not that difficult..........

 

[RPC]

I have gone the route of mixing full 5 liters from a kit at a time and storing it in completely full&squeezed PET bottles in a refrigerator (do not freeze it!). This way, the developer seems to last for about 6 months.

I use glass bottles, filled to the top and have had C-41 and RA-4 developers last more than three years mixed. This is not refrigerated. After this experience, I would never think of trying to deal with partially filled concentrate bottles.

 

[David Lyga]

Yes, SIWA, PET plastic (clear, brittle plastic) is the best thing to happen to storage in the past 20 years. And, best of all, they cost nothing because they are in every trash can. Fill to the very rim and use glass marbles to take up the slack. For small quantities use 50ml liquour bottles (with the metal cap). Great for storage of concentrates, too, but remember to always fill to the rim. - David Lyga

 

[polyglot]

I read your FAQ as you suggested. Lots of good information, but it left me still wondering about the care of C-41 concentrates. In the FAQ it mentions that most b&w concentrates, e.g. Rodinal, are very stable and require no special treatment. It also says that mixed developer needs to have the oxygen removed from the bottle, and several methods are described. I didn't see anything that explicitly talks about the multi-part concentrates used for C-41 though.

True.

When you buy the concentrate, it comes packed in nitrogen but with typically very dodgy caps on bottles that won't properly reseal. I tend to rebottle it into 100mL glass bottles and that looks like it works but I haven't tested any concentrates that are more than a few months old via this method. I'll add to my FAQ once I know that this method is working for me.

 

[Misko78]

I use the Fuji (rated at 16 rolls/L unless process ISO400+), make up 1L at a go and put the 16 rolls through. Sometimes the developer spends 3mo in the fridge between processes but that's fine as long as there's absolutely no air in the bottle.

See the Film FAQ in my signature and click on C41 for a bunch more info on storing developer.

Sorry for bringing an old thread.

I just bought 5L C41 and E6 kits from Fujihunt. I would like to use it a most economical way as possible, because i shoot maybe 5-10 rolls a month. Do you reuse mixed 1L for 16 rolls in 3mo period? I have Jobo CPE2 and it takes 240ml for 2 rolls of 135 film, do you return that used 240ml into a 1L mix?

 

[hka]

Take some (20) glass bottles of 250ml and top off. Use one of these when you need them for the 2 rolls of 135, 120 or 5-6 sheets 4*5" and discard after use. I always use it as one shot. Steady results with no or less changes in filtration (C41-RA4).

 

[Misko78]

With 5L C41 kit you can develop 80 135 or 120 films, with your method only 40 135 or 20 120. That is not what I plan to do.

Edit: But with E6 kit (44 film from 5L) this method is quite good. But i wonder how long will mixed solution will last, divided in 20 bottles topped off and refrigerated. Unused mixed solution will last for 6 weeks, as stated in manual. Any ideas?

 

[EdSawyer]

I use the developer, fixer and rinse one-shot, and recycle the bleach (almost indefinitely). For me, 5L will do about 40-44 rolls of either 35mm or 120 in a Phototherm SSK4. I find that mixed C41 developer is the only one that goes bad in any period of time. Usually a mixed batch of developer will last at most 3-4 weeks before getting unusable. (This is stored in PET, with a blanketing gas). I usually will save up 40+ rolls of film, and process it all at once over the course of 3-4 days, so the developer never has a change to go bad from age/oxidation.

Good luck!

-Ed

 

[bvy]

Dump the "blanketing gas" and fill the bottles to capacity. I get a year or more this way. I tried using Bloxygen to preserve my Ilford PQ concentrate, and I think it went bad faster than if I had done nothing at all.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I use Unicolor in by Jobo processor and develop the 12 to 16 rolls in two to three days maximum.

 

[amellice]

I mix the tetenal c-41 press kit in 3 1 lL brown glass bottles. I keep them in the fridge with wine stopper caps on them

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Compelled to weigh in on the matter of PET bottles.

In the last year, I did immense amounts of research on water vapor permeability with the intention of extending dye inkjet print life. I examined publications that listed "perms", a measurement of permeability of many materials.

Lurking in the background was my real life observation that a simple PET bottle of water, the very thin kind, will auto-collapse all by itself just sitting on a shelf in well under a year. Gas osmosis, water out.

PET bottles of carbonated beverages are much thicker, of course. Gas/vapor transmission reduced by whatever factor in thickness.

In my research I discovered things like the original Saran wrap was about as impervious as glass, but the replacements for the last bunch of years is just LDPE. Not so effective.

And there is one very common, easily attainable material that is, for all practical purposes, a perfect moisture barrier. The envelope, please....................lacquer. Yup. You know how those cellophane packages of peanuts or Twinkies keep the content fresh forever in monsoon season? It's not the cello, it's the lacquer coating! Plain cello is moderately permeability, but it is the lacquer that makes it so much better.

So, if you must use PET bottles - and who doesn't love the cost and non-breakability? - use ones from sparking beverages and give them a few quick coats of lacquer. It dries in a couple of minutes.

 

[hka]

It last for more than a year fully topped off.
Why not more than 20 rolls of 120? In my Jobo tanks I can spool up 2 rolls 120 or 135.

 

[Misko78]

Thanks hka,

I have 1520 tank with 1530 extender. I've forgot that you can spool two 120s onto one reel.

If I understood correctly, I can mix all 5L of C41 as well as E6, divide them into smaller glass containers topped off or blanketed with nitrogen, refrigerate it and it will be good for a year?

 

[hka]

I put them in a dark place not in the fridge and it will last for a year, yes.
I mix all 5L and use therefore demi-water.
Momentary I don't use E6 and have no experience about self life.