C-41 kit and stabilizer questions for old film

[What About Bob]

I recently came across a small Ziplok baggie of exposed 120 rolls from old storage. I have determined the films to have been exposed around 1995/1996. There is a mix of types: Ektachrome E100, Kodak PMC, VPS (Vericolor III) , T-Max T400CN, Tri-X Pro 320, Plus-X, and I have a two rolls of unexposed Plus-X in their original wrapper. These must have been from dropped assignments or play-arounds that had been forgotten from my Hallmark Institute days. I also have an unopened 100 foot roll of Pan F Plus from around 1997 and a partially bulk loaded Tri-X in a Watson bulk loader, about the same age.

For the black and white I'm thinking of using D-23. I do have raw chemicals so I could make up something else. I'm thinking that BZT might help? Seeing that there would be an increase for the development; I am not too sure about using Barry Thornton's two-bath development. I could extend the D-23 to an extra few pushes and then increase the metaborate slightly. Using Barry's way of devloping would lead me to believe that the negatives would come out on the thinner side if I used the standard times and methods.

For the C-41 I am undecided on whether to buy the abbreviated developing kits or should I just hold off a little while longer until I can get the Fuji Hunt full kit with the separated bleach and fixer?

The other question is would I need to use the older formula stabilizer for the C-41 films seeing that they are from mid 90s or will the newer formula stabilizers be all right to use? To my recollection the older formula used a 37.5% formaldehyde + 12% methanol solution. I have noticed that the new stabilizers use an isothiazolinone or hexamine replacement. Would these be compatible for using with the older films? I t has been over 20+ years since I have worked with color materials.

I bought some glass bottles, extra measuring cups, be getting a sous vide and a water bath tub. I never had a sous vide when I last did color developing. Temperatures were adjusted by hand when needed and it worked out all right.

I know that the quality of all of these films are going to be not so great. I am expecting loss of speed, fog more than likely and maybe some extra grain. The storage conditions were constistent. Kept in a clean closet, free of heat, humidity, no chemical contamination and no dampness. Maybe that could be of some help with the quality being OK to where there will be some kind of an image to work with at least.

Coming across this bag gives me the feeling of Christmas in July.

 

[What About Bob]

Not long after posting this I noticed that on top of the Color category was a sticky post by Photo Engineer that outlined exactly what I was questioning. This is what happens when one is in a rush and easily misses it, lol. https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/the-definitive-word-i-hope-on-color-stabilzers.89149/

According to PE: C-41and E6 films before about the year 2000 need a formalin bath, combined with Photo-Flo 200 solution. So 5ml of PF per liter of water and a 3ml to 10ml of 37% formalin solution. I have used a less amount of Photo-Flo 200. Too much and I would get a build-up of white gunk on the negatives. Back then I was using tap water. Now I use distilled.

 

[What About Bob]

Heh: Amazon sells formalin but I don't need a gallon of it. Also comes in liter bottles. I only need about 10/20ml. The methanol percentage appears to be 15%, instead of the 12% that I remember.

 

[_T_]

Not great to have a gallon of formalin sitting around the house and if you ever want to get rid of it it can be a real hassle.

Whenever I needed something like this I would politely ask one of the biology professors at a local university. Sometimes they are willing to share a small quantity for someone with an interesting project.

 

[mshchem]

Formaldehyde goes bad just sitting. You only need Formaldehyde to keep the bugs out
I wouldn't worry about it, keep negatives dry.

 

[khh]

I don't pretend to understand the photo chemistry, but apparently Formalin was needed to stabilise the color in old films, it's not just a biocide. So skipping that step with old film, you risk the negatives not having proper archival quality. Formalin stored in an airtight container does not go bad, it's a very stable solution, but I would not buy a gallon of the stuff. It is a nightmare to store properly. _T_'s suggestion of asking a friendly university employee you might know is a good idea (any biology or anatomy department should have some). Additionally, quite a few C41 kits have an old school stabiliser bath with hexamine, which fulfills the same purpose as Formalin in stabilising the color couplers in the negative. I know the new Adox C-Tec C-41 kit does has a stab with hexamine, and I believe Unicolor's kit does too but you'd have to check. I'd probably go down this route, if I were in your shoes.

 

[What About Bob]

Yes, for the cyan and magenta couplers as well as being a biocide, according to PE.

I found a small volume of the stuff at Amazon, 4oz bottle. The label says 37% formaldehyde, shouldn't it be 37% formalin? What is interesting is the line that reads: "For use with hair, nails and skin?" The other interesting line is that "Our liquid is free from harmful chemicals". That makes me feel a little better, I guess.

If hexamine would be the better alternative I will be all for it. I was reading that hexamine decomposes to formaldehyde and ammonia and that part makes sense to me.

 

[khh]

Formalin is a solution of 37% formaldehyde, usually upto 15 % metanol and the rest water. It's carcinogenic, and we have pretty strict health and safety regulations for it where I work. A stabiliser with hexamine should, as I understand it, do the same job as the old style stabiliser, and it's easier to get in reasonable quantities.