C-41 Developing: How does pouring-from-bottle time affect development time?

[moodlover]

I recently purchased the larger Patterson developing tank that allows you to develop two 120 rolls at once (1000mL total volume). Now, to pour all 1000mL of C-41 developer into this tank takes me about 20-30 seconds. Being that color film is supposed to be developed for 3m30s, how does pouring time affect this?

I start my clock after all the liquid is in, but this means that the roll at the bottom of the tank will have sat in the developer 10-15 seconds longer than the one above it. How should I adjust my development time? Should I begin to pour the developer back out at 3mins or 3m10s and completely empty the tank by 3:30?

 

[Kevin Caulfield]

Yes you should begin to pour it out at 3 mins or 3 mins 10 s and then you will be compensating for that "extra" time the reel at the bottom had.

 

[Rudeofus]

The bottom roll will be the first roll to "see" chemistry when you pour it in, but the top roll will be the last one to "see" it while you pour out, so the overall difference in development evens out. Also, some developer will stay in your film after you poured out, until the next bath enters your tank, and again, bottom roll will "see" that first, too.

 

[moodlover]

The bottom roll will be the first roll to "see" chemistry when you pour it in, but the top roll will be the last one to "see" it while you pour out, so the overall difference in development evens out. Also, some developer will stay in your film after you poured out, until the next bath enters your tank, and again, bottom roll will "see" that first, too.

So what are you saying, when should I pour out my chemistry?

 

[RobC]

you have both pouring in AND pouring out time. If they are both done at same speed then one compensates for time taken by the other (to a point).

20-30 seconds seems like a very long time to pour 1000ml. I just dump chemicals in and out of tank as fast as possible. The jobo tanks are particularly good for this but the paterson tanks are no slouch either.

 

[rbultman]

What bottles do you use for your chemistry? I got the wide mouth Jobo bottles to make pouring faster.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I start the timing from when the chemical is half poured in to the time when it is half poured out.

 

[Ome Kees]

I develop C41 film on 30°C, than pouring in and out don't make a big different because of the longer developing time. I found the 38°C method stressfully.

 

[Photo Engineer]

It is self compensating. Pour in time = pour out time so if the total time is 3'15" then you are good.

The thing is, a prewet helps temper and wet the film, and a stop bath or use of Bleach III or some other acidic bleach helps stop development more evenly.

I do 12 - 18 sheets of 4x5 in one elongated Jobo tank. And BTW, you should be using a lift of some sort for this. The use of 1L is rather exorbitant for 2 120 rolls of film, I think.

PE

 

[MattKing]

Is your tank the latest, Super System 4 type? If so, that is quite slow for filling and emptying.

 

[OzJohn]

The bottom roll will be the first roll to "see" chemistry when you pour it in, but the top roll will be the last one to "see" it while you pour out, so the overall difference in development evens out. Also, some developer will stay in your film after you poured out, until the next bath enters your tank, and again, bottom roll will "see" that first, too.

Strictly this is only true if the tank is vertical for both entry and exit of chemicals. The natural inclination is to have the tank standing on a benchtop for filling but to hand-hold it an an angle to drain. Most plastic tanks will still drain quite rapidly if held vertically or at the very least rotate them at the same time as the fluid is draining. If you ever use one of the larger tanks that hold six or eight reels and up to 2.5 L of fluid with a fast acting developer like C41 the truth of what I am saying can easily become very obvious (not a recommended procedure BTW - get a Jobo or something similar). OzJohn

 

[moodlover]

Is your tank the latest, Super System 4 type? If so, that is quite slow for filling and emptying.

Yes, here is the tank I'm using:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40338-REG/Paterson_PTP116_Multi_Reel_3_Tank_ONLY.html

Emptying is actually faster than pouring if I recall correctly.

What bottles do you use for your chemistry? I got the wide mouth Jobo bottles to make pouring faster.

Here are the bottles I'm using:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ormulary_50_1200_Amber_Glass_Bottle_with.html

As you can see the mouth of this glass bottle is very narrow so it takes quite a while for the fluid to come out on time. I'm not sure what to do to speed this process up, does anyone have any recommendations? I do everything in my bathroom by hand so I am wondering if perhaps I should look into wide mouth bottles? Not sure how much it will help.

And BTW, you should be using a lift of some sort for this. The use of 1L is rather exorbitant for 2 120 rolls of film, I think.

What do you mean by "lift" and "exorbitant"? I am developing 120 rolls in my bathroom, and with the single 120 roll tank it takes 500mL so I figure for two rolls it would take twice the chemistry...?

 

[MattKing]

Here are the bottles I'm using:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ormulary_50_1200_Amber_Glass_Bottle_with.html

As you can see the mouth of this glass bottle is very narrow so it takes quite a while for the fluid to come out on time. I'm not sure what to do to speed this process up, does anyone have any recommendations? I do everything in my bathroom by hand so I am wondering if perhaps I should look into wide mouth bottles? Not sure how much it will help.

You can transfer the chemicals to something with a pouring spout - a Pyrex litre/4 cup or 2 litre/8 cup measuring cup would work.

 

[moodlover]

Ahh thats such a simple and genius solution, I'll pick up two of those asap. Thank you!

 

[Wayne]

Or you can look around for wide-mouth PET (plastic) bottles, which are getting harder to find. Solutions last plenty long in PET if you squeeze the air out.

 

[moodlover]

Or you can look around for wide-mouth PET (plastic) bottles, which are getting harder to find. Solutions last plenty long in PET if you squeeze the air out.

Is it these bottles? http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5141-Arista-Air-Evac-Bottle-1-Liter

 

[MattKing]

Is it these bottles? http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5141-Arista-Air-Evac-Bottle-1-Liter

Avoid those accordion bottles - they are very difficult to clean.

Some of them are also permeable to oxygen.

 

[Sirius Glass]

How about these bottles?

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/3373-Jobo-Wide-Neck-1000ml-Storage-Bottles-Black
​

I use those and also a few of these for storing XTOL stock solution which will be added to the replenished XTOL

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5141-Arista-Air-Evac-Bottle-1-Liter
​

 

[RobC]

when I dev film I 3/4 fill a kitchen washing up bowl with water which is mixed to 1 deg above my developing temp. I then take some of what I call my mixing bottles, measure and mix my developer to working strength using water from the bowl into a mixing bottle and put its lid on. I then float the mixed dev bottle in the bowl of water which acts as a water bath keeping temp correct and constant for more than long enough. I then do same for stop and and same for fix. So now I have 3 bottles (labeled) in my bowl all ready mixed for use.
These bottles have wide mouths and pour into my jobo dev tank very fast. I have a set of 600ml bottles and a set of 1000ml bottles. I don't use the bottles for long term storage, but purely as working solution mixing bottles. I can then just grab the required bottle, take the top off off and dump its contents into my jobo tank. Probably takes no more than 5 seconds even for 1000ml mix.
The bottles I use are the ones you can see on the Jobo site here:

http://www.jobo-usa.com/jobo-analog-products/jobo-system-accessories

When I have finished dev, stop and fix process, I use the water from bowl for my film wash using the Ilford wash routine. So max water usage for dev of 2 to 4 films is 3/4 of washing up bowl.

[edit]
yes same ones as sirius just showed link to at Freestyle

 

[Wayne]

Is it these bottles? http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5141-Arista-Air-Evac-Bottle-1-Liter

No, just cheap water or pop bottles although as I said the wide mouths take some effort to find. For some reason they stopped making them a few years back. BUt here is one example still being made. Its a pretty thin bottle, easily squeezable but some people like stiffer bottles. Gatorade/sports drink bottles are much stiffer but also PET.

How about these bottles?

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/3373-Jobo-Wide-Neck-1000ml-Storage-Bottles-Black
​

I use those and also a few of these for storing XTOL stock solution which will be added to the replenished XTOL

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5141-Arista-Air-Evac-Bottle-1-Liter
​

Aren't those HDPE? HDPE is more permeable than PET but some manufacturers do use it for concentrated photo chemicals.

 

[Wayne]

egads I hope that resizes, lol

 

[Soeren]

You are aware you can stack 2 120 films on 1 reel?

 

[mnemosyne]

You are aware you can stack 2 120 films on 1 reel?

Good point. Stack the two rolls on one reel in a small tank and use 500 ml or whatever your tank calls for. This will make pouring in and out of solutions much faster and easier. Also more comfortable to invert the tank. As PE indicated 1000ml is overkill for two rolls of film in the sense that is much more developing agent than actually needed to completely develop the film.

 

[moodlover]

You are aware you can stack 2 120 films on 1 reel?

I had no idea this was possible! I just thought about it, and if it works this is a brilliant, brilliant idea! Why doesn't everyone do this though rather than buying the bigger tank?

I am worried that I might mess up somehow and the two rolls would overlap each other and rub together. If I can do this it would make my life SO much easier though! Is 500mL really enough for two rolls? The bottom of the tank recommends 500mL per roll, but maybe they mean per tank?

Also @matt: I just used a 1000mL beaker I had at home to pour my C-41 and it only took 8 seconds to pour 1000mL! I assume I can get this down to half this time if I used half the chemistry.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Acutally 8 seconds is the addition time I use and it is also suggested in some manuals.

PE