C-41 and ECP-2D with only a developer switch?

Photo Engineer · Jan 24, 2014

Stone, it didn't ring your bell or howl?

PE

kuparikettu · Jan 24, 2014

Andrew,

please share your results afterwards. I have been thinking about this workflow as well; would be very interesting to see how those slides turn out!

StoneNYC · Jan 24, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
Stone, it didn't ring your bell or howl?

PE

Hah! My Howl is with Ginsburg... My bell should be left to my girlfriend.

Athiril · Jan 28, 2014

StoneNYC said:
But it's a negative, so you can't shoot with it right? You have to copy your neg ONTO it and then it's a positive?

Either way it doesn't have an orange mask right? So you could X-process this in E-6 potentially? And not have the orange mask?

I've shot both camera negatives and slides with it.

The slides looked pretty reasonable at the time, but I need to get my hands on the can again (2000ft can) I cant remember where I left it. Mine was Vision Print not Premier. Mine also has remjet to deal with.

For the slides, I think I recall using E-6 first developer at 30 degrees and diluted 1:1.

StoneNYC · Jan 28, 2014

Athiril said:
I've shot both camera negatives and slides with it.

The slides looked pretty reasonable at the time, but I need to get my hands on the can again (2000ft can) I cant remember where I left it. Mine was Vision Print not Premier. Mine also has remjet to deal with.

For the slides, I think I recall using E-6 first developer at 30 degrees and diluted 1:1.

So because it has a clear base you were able to shoot it and x-process in E6?

Photo Engineer · Jan 28, 2014

Geez guys, you are lucky you got anything. The E6 family of films are Br/I emulsions in the range of 1 - 5 microns whereas the ECP emulsions are 0.2 micron Cl/Br grains. The developers are designed accordingly. The E6 process can over develop the ECP family of products if you are not careful.

PE

frobozz · Jan 28, 2014

Athiril said:
I've shot both camera negatives and slides with it.

The slides looked pretty reasonable at the time, but I need to get my hands on the can again (2000ft can) I cant remember where I left it. Mine was Vision Print not Premier. Mine also has remjet to deal with.

For the slides, I think I recall using E-6 first developer at 30 degrees and diluted 1:1.

Did they used to put RemJet on print film? The current stuff seems to not have it:

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/US_plugins_acrobat_en_motion_products_lab_h12383t.pdf

Duncan

Athiril · Jan 28, 2014

StoneNYC said:
So because it has a clear base you were able to shoot it and x-process in E6?

Yes, I gotta find where I put that strip, and also the can of film so I can do it again. I got better results as a camera film then I did contacting printing 5201 50D to it and running SD-50 (mixed from raw components, and yes I did use CD-2). I dont know why, must be my exposure. I couldn't quite get it right to look decent.

It's designed for projectable positive images. It's very close to clear, it has a slight bias iirc.

It's also designed for printing from negatives with the orange integral mask, through tungsten light.

Developer is on page 9-20
http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uplo...otion_support_processing_h249_h2409_ecp2e.pdf

Photo Engineer said:
Geez guys, you are lucky you got anything. The E6 family of films are Br/I emulsions in the range of 1 - 5 microns whereas the ECP emulsions are 0.2 micron Cl/Br grains. The developers are designed accordingly. The E6 process can over develop the ECP family of products if you are not careful.

PE

It's why I chose to dilute the developer, to lower the solvent action that would be faster, as well as the developing agents to reduce development rate, as well as process at a lower than normal temp (by 8 degrees C). I would have adjusted from there, but it seemed like a good starting point.

The other reason I chose to dilute, is also again to lower the solvent action, as I read somewhere in E-6 first developer formulations, that less thiocyanate results in increased yellow in the slide.

It's always fun to experiment and see what I you can use something for before you miss the chance to ever try.

Photo Engineer · Jan 28, 2014

Dan, your graph is lacing in the blue layer. Something is wrong with it.

PE

Athiril · Jan 28, 2014

It's Kodak's chart for the film

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/Quicklinks/Curves/f010_0293ac.htm

Photo Engineer · Jan 29, 2014

My apologies. The yellow is almost invisible in both graphs, but it is there. That appears to be the typical spectrogram of a print film or color paper in which the blue is the fast layer and the red is the "speed" layer or slowest. This is why you generally start with a 50R filter pack.

PE

Mogsby · Feb 6, 2017

ajseier said:
I normally shoot Ektar 100 in 120, but I do love projecting my 35mm slides.

So I was thinking, when I want to make slides, maybe I can just put my 6x9 negatives in some sort of carrier for my Nikon N90s, and strike the slides I want from the negatives onto 35mm Vision Premier Color Print Film. Along the way I realized how cheap the C-41 chemicals are, and thought that I might be able to run both processes (C-41 and ECP-2D) using the same bleach, fixer, and if necessary for both, "final rinse". I would be mixing my own ECP developer from the Kodak recipe right before I use it: I know it's not too shelf-stable.

Sounds to me like a great setup, at least in theory. I would be able to develop my negatives, look them over, and strike slides from them in the same day (ATL-2 makes it easy).

My question is, can I use the C-41 bleach, fix, and final rinse for ECP-2D?
Also, should there be a stop bath after development in one process, both, or neither?
And if anyone has experience exposing Vision Premier Color Print Film, your exposure settings please. Thanks!

I have just done some contact print onto print film. I have the ecp 2 developer and it is ok to use the same ecn2 bleach and fix. One thing to note is that there is a first and second fix in the process. I did the contact prints under an enlarger. It's a long exposure , at least 7 seconds. The main problem is that the colours are way off due to a lack of filters. 2000ft of print film is probably what is needed before you get a good print. Maybe I could use the colour head enlarger to filter the light, not sure that would work though.

C-41 and ECP-2D with only a developer switch?

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