bye bye Freestyle's Arista II

dpurdy · Apr 24, 2009

If you are a fan of the Freestyle Arista II paper you better get your order in now because they have discontinued it and are selling out the stock. When I talked to them they only had 2 boxes 16x20 glossy left and the 8x10 is going fast.

The sales gal said they are going to continue the Kentmere line so the same paper is going to be available but not at the reduced re boxed price.

They are going to bring in a replacement in August but mum is the word on what it will be or how much it will cost.
Dennis

Ole · Apr 24, 2009

After Harman bought Kentmere, it was only a question of time. Harman have stated that they will not sell their products for re-labelling, so this should not come as a surprise to anyone.

You will just have to get used to buying the same (or as close to the same as possible) product under it's real name, just like everyone else in the world outside the US.

jmcd · Apr 24, 2009

"The sales gal said they are going to continue the Kentmere line"

And from the catalog, "Results will vary from previous versions."

I have been using the soon-to-be-replaced Kentmere papers and Arista II. One of the characteristics I like so much about these papers is that they produced very sharp looking printssharper to my eye than results I could produce on Ilford VC papers.

I hope the new papers will exhibit a similar sharpness.

PHOTOTONE · Apr 24, 2009

Ole said:
After Harman bought Kentmere, it was only a question of time. Harman have stated that they will not sell their products for re-labelling, so this should not come as a surprise to anyone.

You will just have to get used to buying the same (or as close to the same as possible) product under it's real name, just like everyone else in the world outside the US.

Ole, what Harman said was they will not sell "ILFORD" films and papers under private labels. They also said they would continue the relationship that Kentmere had with Freestyle. Selling "Kentmere" formula products under private label is not going against their "Ilford" statements.

Ole · Apr 24, 2009

They said that before they bought Kentmere.

That they "will continue the relationship that Kentmere had with Freestyle" only means that they will honour the agreements on deliveries and prices made before the merger, not that they will continue allowing Kentmere products to be sold under different names.

david b · Apr 24, 2009

So is the Arista II VC FB the same as the Kentmere Fineprint VC FB paper?

BetterSense · Apr 24, 2009

Why should i care? Do people really like it, or is it particularly good paper? How's the VC RC compared to Ilford MGIV VC RC or the existing Freestyle EDU.Ultra?

dpurdy · Apr 24, 2009

BetterSense said:
Why should i care? Do people really like it, or is it particularly good paper? How's the VC RC compared to Ilford MGIV VC RC or the existing Freestyle EDU.Ultra?

If you don't care then you shouldn't care. It is good quality material. I care because I do custom and commercial printing with it and I have to watch my costs to survive. Freestyle has helped me survive for 19 years now.

I only use the RC in the perle surface and it is close enough to Ilford that I can mix the Arista and Ilford together in a job and no one notices.

The existing EDU Ultra is going to continue to exist and it is good but in my experience it has a bit warmer base in the fiber and I can't match it to current or past work. Also in my experience the perle surface RC curled the opposite way.

Curt · Apr 24, 2009

Arista II "The next generation"?

Mahler_one · Apr 24, 2009

dpurdy said:
If you don't care then you shouldn't care. It is good quality material. I care because I do custom and commercial printing with it and I have to watch my costs to survive. Freestyle has helped me survive for 19 years now.

I only use the RC in the perle surface and it is close enough to Ilford that I can mix the Arista and Ilford together in a job and no one notices.
The existing EDU Ultra is going to continue to exist and it is good but in my experience it has a bit warmer base in the fiber and I can't match it to current or past work. Also in my experience the perle surface RC curled the opposite way.

Please excuse me for honing in on one of your statements that perhaps might be perceived incorrectly. Do YOU notice any difference in the way the two papers print?

david b · Apr 24, 2009

So is the Arista II VC FB the same as the Kentmere Fineprint VC FB paper?

dpurdy · Apr 24, 2009

Mahler_one said:
Please excuse me for honing in on one of your statements that perhaps might be perceived incorrectly. Do YOU notice any difference in the way the two papers print?

The last time I did this, I ran out of Arista and finished with a box of ilford and the only difference I noticed was that the Ilford seemed to lay a bit flatter. Once washed and dried and mixed up, no I wouldn't be able to tell.

dpurdy · Apr 24, 2009

david b said:
So is the Arista II VC FB the same as the Kentmere Fineprint VC FB paper?

I think the only way to know for sure is work for either Freestyle or Kentmere to know if there is any other difference besides the box.

Today when I talked to the sales woman on the phone and expressed concern that they were discontinuing the Arista she told me that I could still get the Kentmere and it was the same paper.

Paul Sorensen · Apr 24, 2009

david b said:
So is the Arista II VC FB the same as the Kentmere Fineprint VC FB paper?

This was my understanding when they introduced it. I was unable to see any difference at all between the Kentmere and the Arista II.

PHOTOTONE · Apr 24, 2009

I think if Ilford won't allow their Kentmere (formula) papers to be private labeled by huge vendors such as Freestyle, their volume of sales is going to go way down. After all, the private label papers and their economical prices are what students have to use, and what prudent professionals use for volume printing. They can continue to "protect" the Ilford line, by restricting the use of Ilford formulas to Ilford brand products.

Let's face it, vendors such as Freestyle will find something to sell under their Arista name, and all that paper then sold is paper sales lost to Harman.

technopoptart · Apr 24, 2009

Arggg..

Arista II is the only paper that my midterm for advanced class would print on. the ilford required 9 times the exposure thru lots of incriments and dodge/burning.

My 2 mamiya rigs are fast becoming eye candy.

Curt · Apr 24, 2009

How many are using Arista II and what is the price difference between it and Kentmere?

david b · Apr 24, 2009

Go to Freestyles website and look

Curt · Apr 25, 2009

The difference isn't prohibitive.

BetterSense · Apr 25, 2009

The difference seems to be between $39 and $46 for 100 sheets of 8x10 RC. A significant difference.

wogster · Apr 25, 2009

PHOTOTONE said:
I think if Ilford won't allow their Kentmere (formula) papers to be private labeled by huge vendors such as Freestyle, their volume of sales is going to go way down. After all, the private label papers and their economical prices are what students have to use, and what prudent professionals use for volume printing. They can continue to "protect" the Ilford line, by restricting the use of Ilford formulas to Ilford brand products.

Let's face it, vendors such as Freestyle will find something to sell under their Arista name, and all that paper then sold is paper sales lost to Harman.

There are a couple of things, first of all, it may not represent a huge part of Harman's sales. It may be a big part of their US sales, but in a global market, that may not be a large part of the overall market for these products, especially with the US being possessed with digital so much now. While emerging markets are still largely film based.

A question though, if Freestyle is so huge, why don't they design their own films and papers, like many other US companies, then contract produce them elsewhere. If it works for Nike and Hewlett Packard why not Freestyle. They wouldn't need such a confusing array of product names, because they could retain products as long as they want to make them. They could also get Harman to coat the emulsions in the UK, then ship the master rolls to China for slitting and packaging.

tbm · Apr 25, 2009

Last year I bought a box of Kentmere's standard glossy RC paper (5x7 inches) and upon making numerous prints I was totally unhapppy with the results because the tonality was cold rather than neutral. Therefore, I decided to stay with Ilford's standard glossy RC paper (in both 5x7 and 8x10 inch sizes) because it is neutral in tone.

bye bye Freestyle's Arista II

dpurdy

Ole

Moderator

jmcd

PHOTOTONE

Ole

Moderator

david b

BetterSense

dpurdy

Curt

Mahler_one

david b

dpurdy

dpurdy

Paul Sorensen

PHOTOTONE

technopoptart

Curt

david b

Curt

BetterSense

wogster

tbm

bye bye Freestyle's Arista II

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