BW400CN Film. Found at my freezer

Jose A Martinez · Oct 23, 2015

My freezer had a malfunction and I had to take all my film out. In the process I found out that I have 20 rolls of BW400CN film that I always thought that it was another kind of film and is way out of the expiration date. I'm planing to use this film, I like it. The question is: what can expect of the result?; do I have to consider any adjustment?, on exposure settings?, or processing?. I know that the doubts solves taking one roll and see what happens, the taste of the pudding is in the eating, anyway, any suggestions?.

Jeff Bradford · Oct 23, 2015

If it has been stored in the freezer since new, I would use it like fresh film.

Xmas · Oct 23, 2015

Ko.Fe. · Oct 23, 2015

In 2014 they gave me two of this film.

I think, it is same as yours. It has Olympics logo from games somewhere in USA. No idea how it was stored.
I developed it in C-41 kit and it came with huge grain shaped like the frost flakes, but still usable.

Xmas · Oct 23, 2015

At 50 or 100 ISO there should be no detectable grain on a 16x20.

bsdunek · Oct 23, 2015

Jeff Bradford said:
If it has been stored in the freezer since new, I would use it like fresh film.

+2

pentaxuser · Oct 23, 2015

Ko.Fe. said:
In 2014 they gave me two of this film.

I think, it is same as yours. It has Olympics logo from games somewhere in USA. No idea how it was stored.
I developed it in C-41 kit and it came with huge grain shaped like the frost flakes, but still usable.

I always thought that as a C41 B&W there was little or no grain as the silver goes and only dyes are left. It is not as if it was very old. How did this huge grain like frosted flakes show itself?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Sirius Glass · Oct 23, 2015

Jeff Bradford said:
If it has been stored in the freezer since new, I would use it like fresh film.

Xmas said:
+1

Process as color film, but the prints will be black & white on color paper.

Fixcinater · Oct 23, 2015

I'd err on the side of overexposure but I'd do that anyway with BW400CN.

Sirius Glass · Oct 23, 2015

I err on the side of the manufacturer and shoot box speed. There is no reason to do otherwise, Zonistas need not apply. :devil:

Ko.Fe. · Oct 23, 2015

pentaxuser said:
I always thought that as a C41 B&W there was little or no grain as the silver goes and only dyes are left. It is not as if it was very old. How did this huge grain like frosted flakes show itself?

Thanks

pentaxuser

It shows itself as frosted flakes on scans, I did not printed from it.

Xmas · Oct 24, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
I err on the side of the manufacturer and shoot box speed. There is no reason to do otherwise, Zonistas need not apply. :devil:

No sale

The 400 ISO mono chromogenic films have different characteristics from the retained silver mono...

They can be shot at 1000 ISO with normal mini lab processing and wet printed nearly normally with shadow detail...

But there will be artifice in shadows that looks like digital noise!

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/201142711321939.pdf

Could not find a BW400 sheet sorry

But if you want real quality shoot at 50ISO.

The mask in BW400CN makes VC printing more 'fun'...

lxdude · Oct 24, 2015

Xmas said:
No sale

The 400 ISO mono chromogenic films have different characteristics from the retained silver mono...

They can be shot at 1000 ISO with normal mini lab processing and wet printed nearly normally with shadow detail...

But there will be artifice in shadows that looks like digital noise!

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/201142711321939.pdf

Could not find a BW400 sheet sorry

But if you want real quality shoot at 50ISO.

The mask in BW400CN makes VC printing more 'fun'...

Kodak Technical Publication for BW400CN:
www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4036/f4036.pdf

markbarendt · Oct 24, 2015

Fixcinater said:
I'd err on the side of overexposure but I'd do that anyway with BW400CN.

Your bias avoids Noel's noise. I err that way with any negative film.

Sirius Glass said:
I err on the side of the manufacturer and shoot box speed. There is no reason to do otherwise, Zonistas need not apply. :devil:

Box speed is truly what I meter for, my baseline. If I'm shooting a 400 ISO film my meter is set at 400 normally.

When the meter gives me suggestions that won't work for the shot at hand I don't reset the meter, I ask myself questions like: "am I using the right film?"; "am I comfortable shooting with a bit less or more exposure here?"; "am I within the limits I've tested?"; "what effect do I want here?"; "should I use flash?" ...

What I don't ask anymore is: "should I use push/pull/plus/minus development?"

Xmas said:
No sale

The 400 ISO mono chromogenic films have different characteristics from the retained silver mono...

They can be shot at 1000 ISO with normal mini lab processing and wet printed nearly normally with shadow detail...

But there will be artifice in shadows that looks like digital noise!

The noise is really grain. C-41 films simply present their grain most prominently at the toe end of the curve. Normal b&w film presents grain more in the mid-tones.

Xmas said:
But if you want real quality shoot at 50ISO.

Extra exposure is the fun side with C-41 films. C-41's latitude makes simple cameras like my hola easy and fun. Actually make most any camera fun.

Xmas · Oct 24, 2015

markbarendt said:
The noise is really grain. C-41 films simply present their grain most prominently at the toe end of the curve. Normal b&w film presents grain more in the mid-tones.
.

It will look like digital noise to the noobs? Yes I accept it is grain.
If you shoot at 50 ISO it is a good test for your dmax...

Sirius Glass · Oct 24, 2015

Xmas said:
No sale

The 400 ISO mono chromogenic films have different characteristics from the retained silver mono...

They can be shot at 1000 ISO with normal mini lab processing and wet printed nearly normally with shadow detail...

But there will be artifice in shadows that looks like digital noise!

The digital noise tells me that shoot at 1000 is bullocks and you just proved that you do not know what you are talking about. Please put on a conical hat and sit in the corner for a while.

Xmas · Oct 24, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
The digital noise tells me that shoot at 1000 is bullocks and you just proved that you do not know what you are talking about. Please put on a conical hat and sit in the corner for a while.

You have moved from calling me a Zonie to tellig me my post is bollox.

Please could you try and read the data sheets in thread and wind in your horns.

BW400CN and XP2 are both ok at 1000 ISO if you print yourself and can tolerate the shadow artifice...

Much recommended if you need a 1000 ISO film.

pentaxuser · Oct 24, 2015

Xmas said:
BW400CN and XP2 are both ok at 1000 ISO if you print yourself and can tolerate the shadow artifice...

Much recommended if you need a 1000 ISO film.

I have seen something( report/ article) or somebody very recently saying the same and now I cannot recall the details for the life of me.

When I first came across XP2+ and read about it, I thought it was the photographer's dream-answer to changing light conditions i.e. it was possible to start at 100/200 in bright light then move to 400 if it became overcast then to 800 as day became early evening then to 1600 as it became night with only a small loss of shadow detail. The great thing was that all these speeds were possible on the same film because the development time was the same.

The strange thing is that I cannot recall seeing any examples of negs at 800/1000

XP2+ should be a versatile film and yet few here seem to use it and even fewer at the range of speeds it is said to be capable of.

So any examples at a range of speeds would be appreciated.

Thanks

pentaxuser

Xmas · Oct 25, 2015

pentaxuser said:
I have seen something( report/ article) or somebody very recently saying the same and now I cannot recall the details for the life of me.

When I first came across XP2+ and read about it, I thought it was the photographer's dream-answer to changing light conditions i.e. it was possible to start at 100/200 in bright light then move to 400 if it became overcast then to 800 as day became early evening then to 1600 as it became night with only a small loss of shadow detail. The great thing was that all these speeds were possible on the same film because the development time was the same.

The strange thing is that I cannot recall seeing any examples of negs at 800/1000

XP2+ should be a versatile film and yet few here seem to use it and even fewer at the range of speeds it is said to be capable of.

So any examples at a range of speeds would be appreciated.

Thanks

pentaxuser

When BW400CN was cancelled everyone claimed to have never used it...
Wait until XP2+ is cancelled cause it is not selling... But is there bye cheap ...

Anon Ymous · Oct 25, 2015

Xmas said:
When BW400CN was cancelled everyone claimed to have never used it...

Well, I've used it... exactly twice. It wasn't bad at all, it was very nice actually, for what it was. The problem is that it was something... eh... pointless? It was useful if you needed to have BW prints with the convenience, abundance and speed of C41 processing. The operator didn't need to do much, if anything at all and you'd get at least reasonably good and grain free prints. But then, nowadays film is scanned at the minilabs, it's not printed directly. So why bother using BW400CN when any colour C41 film will do nicely? Just tell the operator that you want BW prints. And if you go that road, there are also other advantages in using colour films. You can emulate all these yellow/orange/red filters digitally, no need to use any when taking the photograph and lose 1-2 stops. Add to that the fact that it wasn't exactly ideal when using an enlarger (orange mask) and you have even less reasons to use it. XP2 on the other hand combines the best characteristics of C41 film with ease of use in the darkroom.

MartinCrabtree · Oct 25, 2015

I used it once and good such poor prints from the lab never again. It appears to scan well...........but I found that out too late. Got a roll or two of XP2+ in the freezer so we'll shoot that soon enough. I need a darkroom and time to learn to print. dammit.

markbarendt · Oct 25, 2015

MartinCrabtree said:
... such poor prints from the lab never again. ...

I think this is very representative of what happens to many, many people. Too many times it ends there.

It is a fixable problem, if you find a good lab, and you talk with them.

MartinCrabtree said:
... I need a darkroom and time to learn to print. dammit.

Or start your own.

Xmas · Oct 26, 2015

MartinCrabtree said:
I used it once and good such poor prints from the lab never again. It appears to scan well...........but I found that out too late. Got a roll or two of XP2+ in the freezer so we'll shoot that soon enough. I need a darkroom and time to learn to print. dammit.

Hi Michael

XP2+ is nice film for high contrast scenes you will be printing with a hard filter on VC paper otherwise.
Night scenes in rain recommended.
Ideally with a C41 kit but only to avoid scratches or dust.

To be fair I used it for camera testing the local mini lab was open 8/7 here until last year. And did fast turnaround & high quality work.

If you want 16x20s without grain, or available darkness.

Noel

Xmas · Oct 26, 2015

MartinCrabtree said:
... I need a darkroom and time to learn to print. dammit.

Staple gun, Velcro roll, sheet of hardboard to convert spare bed room or understairs cupboard.
Or even heavy drapes and night time.

Either ok for silver bromide paper.

You can process in print tube wash in bath tub.

Sheet of flame polished glass and ply off cuts and clips for contact printing frame.

A old 6x9 folder and contact frame is easy way to learn straight printing. You can load frame in changing bag.

Start today, I started when I was five.

MartinCrabtree · Oct 26, 2015

Thanks. Want to get developing down first. Working on it.

BW400CN Film. Found at my freezer

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