BW Film dev using Dektol

HDL · Apr 23, 2015

I'm shooting Foma Holga 400 BW (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/792419-REG/Foma_191420_Holga_120_Black_and.html) and plan on using Dektol to develop. I've read to do 1:7 for 5-10 minutes.

This is my first time developing film...what happens the longer I leave the film in the developer? Can anyone help me understand what the timing and dilution ratio does in terms of how the final result will look? Does grain become more prevalent with a stronger mix?

I have a paterson development tank, do i need to agitate it the whole time its developing?

Thanks in advance and i'm happy to take any other tips anyone has.

amellice · Apr 23, 2015

just a suggestion since this is your first film, why not use a film developer instead of paper developer? the film developer package will have the time and dilution required.

snapguy · Apr 23, 2015

what

First, we would have to know what it is that you want to see in the developed negatives. I sort of assume you might be a Loma type and want a lot of grain. Is this the case? Overexposed film given traditional development tend to give you more grain. With a print developer, I have no clue. You could shoot a roll of film, cut it in half in the darkroom and develop one half longer than the other half.

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 23, 2015

Welcome to APUG. Good to have you with us...

HDL said:
This is my first time developing film...what happens the longer I leave the film in the developer?

In general, longer developing time will both increase the overall contrast and exaggerate the appearance of grain in the negatives. The longer the film is in the developer, the greater these two effects will become.

HDL said:
Can anyone help me understand what the timing and dilution ratio does in terms of how the final result will look?

Less dilute (stronger) developer solutions will be similar in effect to longer development times. Meaning, both the contrast and grain will increase. More dilute (weaker) solutions will have the opposite effect. Shorter developing times are usually used with stronger dilutions, longer times with weaker dilutions.

HDL said:
Does grain become more prevalent with a stronger mix?

In general, yes. Especially when unadjusted longer times are used. Over time you will discover your own tipping point, beyond which the increased grain is not to your liking.

HDL said:
I have a paterson development tank, do i need to agitate it the whole time its developing?

Not necessarily. Most agitation cycles are usually intermittent. Something on the order of 10 seconds agitation for every 30-60 seconds of elapsed time. The greater the percentage of time spent agitating, the less overall development time is required. They are a trade-off.

HDL said:
Thanks in advance and i'm happy to take any other tips anyone has.

Be aware that temperature can have a large effect on the outcome as well. Try to keep your developer temperature reasonably consistent (within a degree or two for each developing run). The standard is 68F/20C, but others can be used with adjustments to developing time.

Also try to keep all of your solutions (developer, stop bath, fixer, clearing bath if you use one) within a degree or two of each other. This includes the wash water at the end. Too much of a difference between solutions can physically damage the wet film.

Be gently wary of the advice you might get here. Many have been doing this for so long—decades in some cases—that their answers, while well meaning and offered in good faith, will unwittingly expect you to have more unspoken background knowledge that you may have at this point.

The advice they give will be for the most part correct, but it still may not make sense. So don't be afraid to ask for clarifications. Every single person here was in your same shoes at some point in their past.

Also, consider experience to be your best guide and teacher. Once you have enough information—or think you do—to try something out, just do it. Keep track of what you did. Write it down if necessary. Then examine your results and adjust as needed. Keep in mind that failure is your best teacher. Embrace it whenever you can. It's presence means you're making good progress.

If (when) you get stuck, just wander back here and ask for more advice. You'll get tons...

Ken

bdial · Apr 23, 2015

The print developer will tend to give you more pronounced grain than a typical film developer. It's something most folks avoid, but if you're looking to achieve a grainy look, then there is nothing wrong with using it.

Adding development time will increase the contrast.

There are few hard and fast rules, but it does help to have a good grounding in the basics before experimenting, and film in paper developer is considered by many as experimenting. You'll find less information about that combination than for conventional film developers, so you're likely to be doing some trial and error.

But, if you're the type that enjoys "learning experiences", go for it!

RPC · Apr 23, 2015

Dektol is not just a print developer; it works well with film as well and has been used in the past as such by photographers. IIRC, it was originally designed as a film developer.

HDL · Apr 23, 2015

Thanks, I have film developer but wanting to get a specific look. I've seen others here use Dektol with other films and wanted to mimic that as best I could.

amellice · Apr 23, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
Welcome to APUG. Good to have you with us...

In general, longer developing time will both increase the overall contrast and exaggerate the appearance of grain in the negatives. The longer the film is in the developer, the greater these two effects will become.

Less dilute (stronger) developer solutions will be similar in effect to longer development times. Meaning, both the contrast and grain will increase. More dilute (weaker) dilutions will have the opposite effect. Shorter developing times are usually used with stronger dilutions, longer times with weaker dilutions.

In general, yes. Especially when unadjusted longer times are used. Over time you will discover your own tipping point, beyond which the increased grain is not to your liking.

Not necessarily. Most agitation cycles are usually intermittent. Something on the order of 10 seconds agitation for every 30-60 seconds of elapsed time. The greater the percentage of time spent agitating, the less overall development time is required. They are a trade-off.

Be aware that temperature can have a large effect on the outcome as well. Try to keep your developer temperature reasonably consistent (within a degree or two for each developing run). The standard is 68F/20C, but others can be used with adjustments to developing time.

Also try to keep all of your solutions (developer, stop bath, fixer, clearing bath if you use one) within a degree or two of each other. This includes the wash water at the end. Too much of a difference between solutions can physically damage the wet film.

Be gently wary of the advice you might get here. Many have been doing this for so longdecades in some casesthat their answers, while well meaning and offered in good faith, will unwittingly expect you to have more unspoken background knowledge that you may have at this point.

The advice they give will be for the most part correct, but it still may not make sense. So don't be afraid to ask for clarifications. Every single person here was in your same shoes at some point in their past.

Also, consider experience to be your best guide and teacher. Once you have enough informationor think you doto try something out, just do it. Keep track of what you did. Write it down if necessary. Then examine your results and adjust as needed. Keep in mind that failure is your best teacher. Embrace it whenever you can. It's presence means you're making good progress.

If (when) you get stuck, just wander back here and ask for more advice. You'll get tons...

Ken

+1

amellice · Apr 23, 2015

HDL said:
Thanks, I have film developer but wanting to get a specific look. I've seen others here use Dektol with other films and wanted to mimic that as best I could.

What exactly that "specific look" you have in mind? Please explain more

HDL · Apr 23, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
Welcome to APUG. Good to have you with us...

If (when) you get stuck, just wander back here and ask for more advice. You'll get tons...

Ken

I've been reading and searching these forums as well as watching videos but there were always little questions I had that weren't covered. Your post was great, I feel much more confident going into this now.

Thanks very much, Ken!

HDL · Apr 23, 2015

amellice said:
What exactly that "specific look" you have in mind? Please explain more

More of a higher contrast look, as far as grain I'm good with medium to medium-high.

HDL · Apr 23, 2015

bdial said:
The print developer will tend to give you more pronounced grain than a typical film developer. It's something most folks avoid, but if you're looking to achieve a grainy look, then there is nothing wrong with using it.

Adding development time will increase the contrast.

There are few hard and fast rules, but it does help to have a good grounding in the basics before experimenting, and film in paper developer is considered by many as experimenting. You'll find less information about that combination than for conventional film developers, so you're likely to be doing some trial and error.

But, if you're the type that enjoys "learning experiences", go for it!

Thanks! That was what I was hoping for! The rolls I've shot thus far aren't anything I'll miss if I totally blow it so I'll i'll get to experimenting.

amellice · Apr 23, 2015

HDL said:
More of a higher contrast look, as far as grain I'm good with medium to medium-high.

As Ken said then, you can increase the development time. this will increase the contrast, also you may dilute less, that will make the developer more concentrate and strong which will result in more contrast. Good luck

removed account4 · Apr 23, 2015

HDL said:
I'm shooting Foma Holga 400 BW (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/792419-REG/Foma_191420_Holga_120_Black_and.html) and plan on using Dektol to develop. I've read to do 1:7 for 5-10 minutes.

This is my first time developing film...what happens the longer I leave the film in the developer? Can anyone help me understand what the timing and dilution ratio does in terms of how the final result will look? Does grain become more prevalent with a stronger mix?

I have a paterson development tank, do i need to agitate it the whole time its developing?

Thanks in advance and i'm happy to take any other tips anyone has.

hi HDL

i currently use dektol ( and caffenol c ) to process all my film.
while i only have 4-5 months experience using DEKTOL, i used ansco 130
which is similar to dektol for 15 years + ... so i figure my experience might be helpful.

when using DEKTOL, it is typical to use it 1: (dilution) for ( dilution) minutes like 1: 7 for 7 mins ...

don't do overly short developing times and strong dilutions like 1:5 ( 5 mins ) you might get uneven development .
and above 68ºF might give you a more contrast than you like.

as snapguy says over expose a bit, and develop normally ( like 1:6 6 mins &c ) you will have nice grain.

good luck getting the look you are trying to achieve -

have fun !
john

ps. don't believe the hype about golf ball size grain &c you might read in the fora.
a lot of folks people make claims about all sorts of stuff with no first hand experience. ...
and 15 years of 130 i never got excessive or golfball sized grain.

Rick A · Apr 23, 2015

Back in "the day" we used the dilution ratio for the time, so if you dilute 1+7, your time is 7 minutes at 68f, YMMV.

gone · Apr 23, 2015

If this is your first time, it might be easier if you use a film developer to develop your film rather than a paper developer. Just an idea :}

Whoops, I now see that amellice already nailed that one. Anyway, it's certainly a better place to start, in my opinion.

Bill Burk · Apr 23, 2015

In post #15 of this thread I explained a test where I developed Tri-X in Dektol 1:9 for 5 minutes.

I was working towards maximum grain, which you get with a somewhat flat negative.

You are looking for more contrast, so I recommend developing longer than 5 minutes.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

RPC · Apr 24, 2015

In that thread, Ian Grant confirms what I recalled earlier, that D-72 (Dektol) was originally formulated as film/plate developer.

Ian Grant · Apr 24, 2015

amellice said:
just a suggestion since this is your first film, why not use a film developer instead of paper developer? the film developer package will have the time and dilution required.

Dektol/D72 was originally sold as a Film/Plate developer but it's not ideal for modern films.

Ian

RPC · Apr 24, 2015

You're right Ian, it works if you are going for a certain look, like the OP but is not the best for general use.

removed account4 · Apr 24, 2015

it all depends on what you want to get out of your film
and what your aesthetics are. some people don't like pinholes or zone plates
and go for app-nikkor or schneider xxl lenses, others the pinhole works just fine.

like with everything "good enough" means different things to different people.
and for me 15+ years of print as film developer, worked fine ...

oh yeah ... YMMV

BW Film dev using Dektol

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