BW amount of M and Y filtration?

[Sirius Glass]

One of the advantages of a color head is that one can dial in the exact amounts of Y+M or anywhere between grades.

 

[esearing]

My method with a color head was to start somewhere in the middle near grade 2 60Y 40M on my dicro head. Then depending on that print I would adjust M up or down to alter contrast. When I first tried split grade printing I would use 170Y then 170M for different times. Now I make my base exposure and burn/dodge with different settings to achieve differing local contrasts, if needed. Under lens filters I might start with a #2, #1, or #0 filter for a base exposure and burn in selectively with a #2.5 or higher.

Your negative contrasts has a lot to do with how much magenta/blue you use, so think about the images you make most often and determine if you will develop them to a standard tonal range or contrasty or compressed. In my limited experience, it is easier to add print contrast from a flat compressed negative than to try to take it away from a high contrast negative. If you have a hard time getting your mind around the effects of multigrade filtration and its effects on various tones, project a step wedge and try different filter settings and burning techniques.

 

[sepiareverb]

So someone has to fish around for the odds n' ends of ancient grade 2 paper still left in the world, then gr 3, 4, etc to understand the lingo first? - grades which never really were standardized brand to brand to begin with ?

“has to”? No. I simply offer a suggestion. Of course there are several excellent graded papers made today, so some expedition into the dark ages isn’t necessary should one want to use more classic materials.

You should know by now that I am not the one to presume or insist that my method is the only method. I offer a suggestion, one that I have seen be helpful for many folks just learning to print.

I learned to print initially on VC papers, then was encouraged to use single grade papers which instilled in me a much better understanding of proper film exposure and development, as well as a very good understanding of print development. Returning to VC papers with this knowledge opened up a much wider range of options for my prints, which I quite appreciate.

Such a tiresome place this has become.

 

[crumpet8]

Yes and no.
Yes, if the adjustments available to you are linear and they match between the filters.
In other words, does a change from 30 to 60 on the magenta scale have the same effect on the amount of green light as a change from 30 to 60 on the yellow scale has an effect on the amount of green light.
If not, no.

Yep, was just thinking theoretically. Thanks everyone, I've learnt a lot from this thread!

 

[crumpet8]

My method with a color head was to start somewhere in the middle near grade 2 60Y 40M on my dicro head. Then depending on that print I would adjust M up or down to alter contrast. When I first tried split grade printing I would use 170Y then 170M for different times. Now I make my base exposure and burn/dodge with different settings to achieve differing local contrasts, if needed. Under lens filters I might start with a #2, #1, or #0 filter for a base exposure and burn in selectively with a #2.5 or higher.

Your negative contrasts has a lot to do with how much magenta/blue you use, so think about the images you make most often and determine if you will develop them to a standard tonal range or contrasty or compressed. In my limited experience, it is easier to add print contrast from a flat compressed negative than to try to take it away from a high contrast negative. If you have a hard time getting your mind around the effects of multigrade filtration and its effects on various tones, project a step wedge and try different filter settings and burning techniques.

1st paragraph //
I've been doing something similiar lately, but I don't quite have a grasp on which tones will be affected most when burning after a base exposure. I've split grade printed some, so am comfortable burning in areas at either max yellow or max magenta so as to avoid exposing either black or white points so much, but how do I relate various contrasts to all the tones in between? Can various contrast settings be attributed to certain grey tones as shown in the zone system step wedge?

2nd //
I generally shoot in similiar conditions. either grey, overcast soft light or direct sun (not directly overhead). As such my negatives are pretty uniform and I start at one of two basic settings and then adjust magenta or yellow. You mean take a photo of a large, simplified step wedge and print it?

 

[crumpet8]

“h
Such a tiresome place this has become.

Don't give up on us yet Bob! I appreciate the tips

 

[CMoore]

I rarely need the Y filter.
My teacher had us print everything (starting) with the Color Head at 10M, and that is still how i start. My typical, final print has been needing between 20M and 70M.....with the "normal" amount of dodging and burning ...sometimes with extra Y or M or Neither..

 

[MattKing]

1st paragraph //
I've been doing something similiar lately, but I don't quite have a grasp on which tones will be affected most when burning after a base exposure. I've split grade printed some, so am comfortable burning in areas at either max yellow or max magenta so as to avoid exposing either black or white points so much, but how do I relate various contrasts to all the tones in between? Can various contrast settings be attributed to certain grey tones as shown in the zone system step wedge?

You seem to be thinking of contrast as being somehow related to particular tones.
Contrast is actually related to how adjacent tones are differentiated.
Assume you have two slightly different mid-tone grays side by side in your negative. An increase in your printing contrast will make those two mid-tones look more different from each other. A decrease in your printing contrast will make those two mid-tones look less different from each other.
It is true that you can combine changes in contrast with changes in exposure to bring detail up in highlights and increase the feeling of weight in shadows, but it is actually the change in exposure that makes the most difference.

 

[cowanw]

1st paragraph //
I've been doing something similiar lately, but I don't quite have a grasp on which tones will be affected most when burning after a base exposure. I've split grade printed some, so am comfortable burning in areas at either max yellow or max magenta so as to avoid exposing either black or white points so much, but how do I relate various contrasts to all the tones in between? Can various contrast settings be attributed to certain grey tones as shown in the zone system step wedge?

2nd //
I generally shoot in similiar conditions. either grey, overcast soft light or direct sun (not directly overhead). As such my negatives are pretty uniform and I start at one of two basic settings and then adjust magenta or yellow. You mean take a photo of a large, simplified step wedge and print it?

You have asked your first question several times in different ways. I think that this might indicate a misunderstanding of what's possible.
Once you have baked your exposure and development of your negative and if you are perfectly consistent in choosing yellow or/and magenta so as to avoid exposing either black or white points so much, then there is only one filter setting available to you and the midtones can only be what they are, at that setting.
Imagine you have a Stouffer step tablet negative and you have decided that only the first and last step are to be total black and total white. Then there is only one combination of print exposure time and filter choice that will accomplish that and the tones in between will march on at 1/2 or 1/3 stops per tone as designed. All other choices involve more steps in total black or in total white. This is precisely the point that caused Peter Henry Emerson to change his mind that Photography was an Art. Sensitometry obeyed the laws of physics and once the negative was baked, everything else followed (given a consistent choice of white and black point). Flexibility on your choice of white and black points are what allows flexibility in midtones. Or going back and making another negative and changing negative exposure and development.

As to your second question as I said in Post 40 you get a Stouffer negative and use that to print.
http://www.stouffer.net/index.html

 

[DREW WILEY]

Graded papers? I'm not aware of any serious ones still available in this country except a small amount of Ilfobrom gr 2&3, at least in projection papers for enlargers. I still have some EMaks, but it's out of production.

 

[crumpet8]

You seem

Ah ok, I think I have it now. I was under the impression that by using certain filter settings I would be able to only expose for certain tones. I think I misunderstood when I learnt split grade printing/burning. People often talk about burning in with various contrast settings and I learned that if burning in darker areas I can use high contrast to not affect the whites so much.

You have asked your fir negative and use that to print.
http://www.stouffer.net/index.html

I think you're right! If you read my reply to Matt above, you'll see what I thought was possible. Thanks for the concise explanation I see now that Im actually just affecting changes in contrast overall (duh, I guess) rather than using the filters to only print certain tones. Interesting reference. I'll look into Emerson some more. The discussion of photography as art and how it has effected more traditional forms of art is interesting.