Buying used enlargers - what to check/avoid?

analoguey · Sep 8, 2014

While I did not get the (there was a url link here which no longer exists), I scouted for more locally and found that these are available at the moment, and I want to decide between them more or less:

A New (old stock) Quarter-plate (3.25" x 4.25") 'Modern' enlarger. Either based on Agfa or an Agfa design. (I will be getting this from the manufacturer, they are still in business and have support/service available)
A used Quarter-plate (3.25" x 4.25") enlarger similar to the above, ex-studio.
used Durst 805 (colour)
ex-studio BW Cabinet / Half-plate (4.5" x 6.5") - "sold by Agfa".

I dont know the lens info on the used enlargers, and from #1, I have mostly Congo lenses available - again, New-Old stock and I am not so enthused with those (unknown storage conditions, near new prices.)

Three Questions: (I will be using these to enlarge 35mm,120(6x7,6x9) and 4x5.)

1. What should I look for, in the box, in terms of parts etc., from the Enlargers (all but the Durst are condensers, I am told; I have the (there was a url link here which no longer exists) for it).
2. Which are the major parts I should check for functionality?

I will be checking for obvious signs of rust, rough usage, electricals being okay or near okay, and if the lenses, then whether they have fungus, coverage for the different formats(negative holders) etc.,

finally:
3. I would like to print large from my 4x5" negatives, equivalent to say 3'+ or so magnification - would the condenser enlargers be okay with this - or would there be too much of a dust-enforced(!) issue? (per 1,(there was a url link here which no longer exists),(there was a url link here which no longer exists))
Too many houses are being constructed around us, with minimal prevention of dust/dirt

If you have any alternate suggestions, that would be great too!

darkosaric · Sep 8, 2014

Check which kind of bulb are used, and if they are available, and if they are - look for price. I have V35 focomat - and original bulbs are no more on the market, substitute are not so bright - it is same nominal power, but somehow they are not as good as original philips.

analoguey · Sep 8, 2014

Ah yes, I will check that - at least for the 1/4 plate, the manufacturer's rep says he can provide me them if I dont find them around!

Alex Muir · Sep 8, 2014

I have a Durst, and have used several other Durst models. They tend to be good quality, but, as mentioned, check bulb availability. One issue I encountered with the M670 and Graduate models was slipping in the height adjustment. These examples were in a college environment, with constant use and abuse. You should, however, check by raising the head and ensuring it stays in position. My own preference would be the Durst, assuming bulbs for it are readily available, but be aware that spares, like negative holder glass and inserts can be expensive. The more accessories it comes with, the better.
Alex

analoguey · Sep 8, 2014

Thanks, Alex. I am told the used gear is all ex-studio so I suppose they were used heavily, I doubt badly though.

Sent from Tap-a-talk

polyglot · Sep 8, 2014

Only the half-plate enlarger is big enough to do 4x5". Make sure it has all the necessary negative carriers you need and that making new ones is not unnecessarily complicated. Ideally you should be able to make a carrier for a new format from a couple aluminium plates with rectangular holes milled in them.

A 3 foot (36") print is pretty big. It requires a tall enlarger column and wide lens (say 135mm) - is the column tall enough to get the magnification you want with the lenses you might reasonably buy? Is there enough baseboard clearance (clearance between lens centreline and the column at the base) to fit a print that big? You need probably 18" of clearance (15" for half the print, plus room for the easel border) to make a 30x40" print. A horizontal enlarger and/or one with a head that supports rotation to horizontal might be necessary.

What sort of column do they have and how rigid is it? A bit of pipe is no good; you want a big cast thing. How rigid are the lock-downs? Does everything move smoothly? In terms of electrical, bring a multimeter and check that at least the earth connection is solid. Make sure that any external power supplies are present and working.

Make sure it takes standard M39 enlarger lens threads. If it has removable lens boards, are they readily available or readily manufactured?

I would certainly recommend a colour enlarger, if only because otherwise you can't print in colour. If you're using multigrade filter gels, don't bother with old ones because the dyes in them fade. Get fresh ones, or at least some that are basically unused. Check that you really can hit grade 4 and 5, assuming you print VC.

mgb74 · Sep 8, 2014

Given the current state of analog photography, you just can't depend that a manufacturer will remain viable. I would be leery of new enlarger unless a lot of them have been sold and therefore a source of used parts.

removed account4 · Sep 8, 2014

i would get something that at least does 4x5 .. and the head can be turned.
printing that large requires a huge enlarger .. turning the head only requires a large wall.
have fun
john

MartinP · Sep 8, 2014

Note that only option 4 will enlarge 4x5" negs, and surely this was already clear?

To enlarge to that size, while retaining some ease of use for smaller enlargements, will probably mean the very largest, drop-table Durst or De-Vere 4x5" model (very expensive, and hard to find spares) or some more space in the darkroom with an enlarger having a rotating head, for projection on to a wall or vertical easel. You then need to think of a way to focus the large and dim image (two people perhaps?) and a stress-free way to align it (Versalab is easiest).

analoguey · Sep 8, 2014

mgb74 said:
Given the current state of analog photography, you just can't depend that a manufacturer will remain viable. I would be leery of new enlarger unless a lot of them have been sold and therefore a source of used parts.

Thats a good tip, they do have a few around, and were okay to build a custom 4x5" but was too pricey (Rs20k+ / ~400$), I was thinking of picking two of these if I can get them cheap enough!

jnanian said:
i would get something that at least does 4x5 .. and the head can be turned.
printing that large requires a huge enlarger .. turning the head only requires a large wall.
have fun
john

yes, my plan is to project horizontally than vertically for larger sizes, have the space for it.

MartinP said:
Note that only option 4 will enlarge 4x5" negs, and surely this was already clear?

To enlarge to that size, while retaining some ease of use for smaller enlargements, will probably mean the very largest, drop-table Durst or De-Vere 4x5" model (very expensive, and hard to find spares) or some more space in the darkroom with an enlarger having a rotating head, for projection on to a wall or vertical easel. You then need to think of a way to focus the large and dim image (two people perhaps?) and a stress-free way to align it (Versalab is easiest).

yes Martin, but I am not sure exactly how big/bulky that machine would be, hence considering alternates too. Plus if i get a second one I can do all the smaller formats separately.
I have some timber around for making a vertical easel made - can you tell me more about the Versalab/alignment bit? And, wouldnt just one person be able to see for sharp focus, at 3"+ or so?

MattKing · Sep 8, 2014

analoguey said:
And, wouldnt just one person be able to see for sharp focus, at 3"+ or so?

It is easy to see, or to reach the focus controls, but some times you need really long arms to be to be able to do both at the same time.

With large enlargements, your paper surface can be a long way away from your focus controls.

The high level Devere enlargers offered baseboard level focus controls - perfect for dealing with this.

analoguey · Sep 8, 2014

polyglot said:
A 3 foot (36") print is pretty big. It requires a tall enlarger column and wide lens (say 135mm) - is the column tall enough to get the magnification you want with the lenses you might reasonably buy? Is there enough baseboard clearance (clearance between lens centreline and the column at the base) to fit a print that big? You need probably 18" of clearance (15" for half the print, plus room for the easel border) to make a 30x40" print. A horizontal enlarger and/or one with a head that supports rotation to horizontal might be necessary.

noted. why 135mm and not 150mm? easier to magnify?

polyglot said:
What sort of column do they have and how rigid is it? A bit of pipe is no good; you want a big cast thing. How rigid are the lock-downs? Does everything move smoothly? In terms of electrical, bring a multimeter and check that at least the earth connection is solid. Make sure that any external power supplies are present and working.

Ah, yes! hadnt thought of that - I dont have a multimeter but ill defly use one of those screwdrivers that can test for current passing through.

polyglot said:
Make sure it takes standard M39 enlarger lens threads. If it has removable lens boards, are they readily available or readily manufactured?

i was told they're Leica mount - but I'm confused - isnt just lens-board or mount enough?

polyglot said:
I would certainly recommend a colour enlarger, if only because otherwise you can't print in colour. If you're using multigrade filter gels, don't bother with old ones because the dyes in them fade. Get fresh ones, or at least some that are basically unused. Check that you really can hit grade 4 and 5, assuming you print VC.

Okay - how do I check if I can hit the grades?

analoguey · Sep 8, 2014

MattKing said:
It is easy to see, or to reach the focus controls, but some times you need really long arms to be to be able to do both at the same time.

With large enlargements, your paper surface can be a long way away from your focus controls.

The high level Devere enlargers offered baseboard level focus controls - perfect for dealing with this.

I meant print size at 3' and horizontally tilted enlarger- wouldn't focus be easily observed, while focusing?
Deveres and larger Durst are too heavy to get shipped here!

MattKing · Sep 8, 2014

analoguey said:
I meant print size at 3' and horizontally tilted enlarger- wouldn't focus be easily observed, while focusing?
Deveres and larger Durst are too heavy to get shipped here!

I always use a focus magnifier to check focus accuracy. It is especially important if you are using large apertures on your lens in order to keep your printing times within reason.

Really large prints require really excellent technique, and involve challenges that are different than those encountered with more typical print sizes.

I encourage you to explore those challenges, but warn that it is difficult to solve them with just the assistance of internet posts.

paul_c5x4 · Sep 8, 2014

Condenser enlargers (generally) use different condensers depending on which focal length lens you are using. For example, a Durst L1200 will use a Femocon 151/152 condenser pair with a 150mm lens, and a Femocon 80 with an 80mm lens. Should I want to use a 50mm lens, a Femocon 50/80 pair would be required. Great if the condensers came with the head, but trying to find them on ebay or in a shop is near on impossible. Same for the film masks - Although I have a basic set for 35mm/6x6/5x4, locating replacements is not easy.

Regardless of which make/model of enlarger you finally chose, make sure that it comes with a full range of accessories and you can still get the lamps at a reasonable price.

MartinP · Sep 8, 2014

A vertical easel would generally hold the paper by means of magnetic-strips on a steel-sheet base, or by sucking the paper on to a vacuum easel (basically a board with air holes in and a low pressure space behind). Temporary, or infrequent-use, easel arrangements can be made with sticky tape and perhaps a piece of stripwood for alignment and to take the weight of the paper.

The Versalab is one of those devices which use an led "laser" pointer to shine a beam perpendicular to a surface, in this case the plane of the paper. You use the reflection of the beam to align the lens-stage and the negative-carrier, via a slide-glass on the lensmount and glass neg-carrier respectively. It is very quick and easy to test alignment in this way and, for mural prints, the simplicity makes it more practical than peering at the corners of a very dim enlarged image of an alignment negative. This still pre-supposes that the enlarger has a built in means of aligning the lens and negative - most non-professional models do not.

Focussing is more tricky with large prints as the projected-image, and grain-magnifier (yes, you do need one), may be eight feet away from the focus knob . . .

If you are also looking for a smaller enlarger for smaller negs and prints, and for a reliable manufacturer that may be available secondhand in your market, then I'd recommend looking for a Meopta Opemus 5 or 6. These will print from 6x6 (6x7 in the last models) and give up to about 18" prints on the baseboard, depending on which model you find. In many cases, the limits that will first affect the printsize on the baseboard (ie. when not turning the head in some way, to print on the floor or a wall) will be the horizontal distance between the lens and the enlarger-column and the width of the 'furniture' on your enlarging-easel.

polyglot · Sep 9, 2014

analoguey said:
noted. why 135mm and not 150mm? easier to magnify?

A shorter lens will give you a bigger enlargement for a given column height. A 135 is about the shortest lens that will cover 4x5", so it's going to give you the biggest possible prints from 4x5". You'll want a shorter lens for your medium format, say 105mm for 6x9 and 80mm for 6x7.

analoguey said:
Ah, yes! hadnt thought of that - I dont have a multimeter but ill defly use one of those screwdrivers that can test for current passing through.

The screwdrivers are extremely inaccurate and should never ever be used to resolve a matter of safety, e.g. that a wire is live. They have no means of determining if the frame ground is good at all. You need to spend $10 on a multimeter and measure the resistance from a few exposed bits of metal to the ground pin on the plug; it should be less than 1 ohm.

analoguey said:
i was told they're Leica mount - but I'm confused - isnt just lens-board or mount enough?

That's a wrong answer from the seller, but tells you that the enlarger is probably right. LTM and most enlarger lenses are both M39 threads, but they have different pitches.

analoguey said:
Okay - how do I check if I can hit the grades?

Get a step wedge and contact print it onto your paper with each filter. Preferably use a densitometer to analyse the result, but eyeballing it can be a good start. Have a read of Way Beyond Monochrome for detailed info.

analoguey · Sep 9, 2014

MattKing said:
I always use a focus magnifier to check focus accuracy. It is especially important if you are using large apertures on your lens in order to keep your printing times within reason.
Really large prints require really excellent technique, and involve challenges that are different than those encountered with more typical print sizes.
I encourage you to explore those challenges, but warn that it is difficult to solve them with just the assistance of internet posts.

Thanks for the encouragement Matt - I understand what you mean about not being able to resolve everything with a post online, I will also check with a couple of friends here, or if not find a nearby photo-school (scarce, but still) for advice.
By printing/exposure times within reason - do you mean less than a minute?

paul_c5x4 said:
Condenser enlargers (generally) use different condensers depending on which focal length lens you are using. For example, a Durst L1200 will use a Femocon 151/152 condenser pair with a 150mm lens, and a Femocon 80 with an 80mm lens. Should I want to use a 50mm lens, a Femocon 50/80 pair would be required. Great if the condensers came with the head, but trying to find them on ebay or in a shop is near on impossible. Same for the film masks - Although I have a basic set for 35mm/6x6/5x4, locating replacements is not easy.
Regardless of which make/model of enlarger you finally chose, make sure that it comes with a full range of accessories and you can still get the lamps at a reasonable price.

Noted. If the Durst, I will probably print out the manual and list so I can check off all the items.
Would it be possible to print on a condenser with just one lens combination itself? or would it mean unnecessary hassle?

analoguey · Sep 9, 2014

polyglot said:
A shorter lens will give you a bigger enlargement for a given column height. A 135 is about the shortest lens that will cover 4x5", so it's going to give you the biggest possible prints from 4x5". You'll want a shorter lens for your medium format, say 105mm for 6x9 and 80mm for 6x7.
The screwdrivers are extremely inaccurate and should never ever be used to resolve a matter of safety, e.g. that a wire is live. They have no means of determining if the frame ground is good at all. You need to spend $10 on a multimeter and measure the resistance from a few exposed bits of metal to the ground pin on the plug; it should be less than 1 ohm.

Right, on the lenses it is basically equivalent to the "standard" lens on that format, got it.
Hmm, okay. I do have some experience using a multimeter, okay, will try that, not a fan of electric shocks.

polyglot said:
That's a wrong answer from the seller, but tells you that the enlarger is probably right. LTM and most enlarger lenses are both M39 threads, but they have different pitches.
Get a step wedge and contact print it onto your paper with each filter. Preferably use a densitometer to analyse the result, but eyeballing it can be a good start. Have a read of Way Beyond Monochrome for detailed info.

Okay, what do you mean by different pitches? I will ask the seller to verify again then.
Re step-wedge and printing - do you mean to say I should print before buying? Or is it a check for part after I have decided/bought? WBM will take a while, once I get my print/enlarging process streamlined, I will step into it. (no puns intended)

analoguey · Sep 9, 2014

MartinP said:
A vertical easel would generally hold the paper by means of magnetic-strips on a steel-sheet base, or by sucking the paper on to a vacuum easel (basically a board with air holes in and a low pressure space behind). Temporary, or infrequent-use, easel arrangements can be made with sticky tape and perhaps a piece of stripwood for alignment and to take the weight of the paper.

My idea is to get one made of wood, with moving scales, and the scales more or less holding the paper in place (somewhat like a 4-bladed easel) - there were quite a few metal fabricators around but most seem to have moved out now - carpenters might be more interested in "projects" like these.

MartinP said:
The Versalab is one of those devices which use an led "laser" pointer to shine a beam perpendicular to a surface, in this case the plane of the paper. You use the reflection of the beam to align the lens-stage and the negative-carrier, via a slide-glass on the lensmount and glass neg-carrier respectively.
This still pre-supposes that the enlarger has a built in means of aligning the lens and negative - most non-professional models do not.

Got it, and will look at lens/negative alignment as well. Will look around for a grain-magnifier - chances are, probably the seller might have them.

MartinP said:
If you are also looking for a smaller enlarger for smaller negs and prints, and for a reliable manufacturer that may be available secondhand in your market, then I'd recommend looking for a Meopta Opemus 5 or 6. These will print from 6x6 (6x7 in the last models) and give up to about 18" prints on the baseboard, depending on which model you find. In many cases, the limits that will first affect the printsize on the baseboard (ie. when not turning the head in some way, to print on the floor or a wall) will be the horizontal distance between the lens and the enlarger-column and the width of the 'furniture' on your enlarging-easel.

There is a reseller of Meoptas - or at least someone who has NOS (again) Meoptas, even advertises Meopta 7s, but given that I had to shuttle between calling the distributor and his local retailer many times and still have no detail, I am not optimistic of buying from them.
I will have a look at other places nearby - I have only recently started hitting the pavement looking for enlargers - till now it was mostly online. There seems to be a lot of (older) industrial goods from Czech/Slovak in India!

polyglot · Sep 9, 2014

analoguey said:
Okay, what do you mean by different pitches? I will ask the seller to verify again then.
Re step-wedge and printing - do you mean to say I should print before buying? Or is it a check for part after I have decided/bought? WBM will take a while, once I get my print/enlarging process streamlined, I will step into it. (no puns intended)

LTM is 39mm diameter and 26 tpi (26 threads per inch). Enlarger lenses are M39x1, i.e. 1mm pitch. You could force one into the other but it's a bad idea, they may jam up or damage the threads.

The grade achieved is mostly a function of the filters and paper you use. No need to test before buying the enlarger but if you're using old filters that came with the enlarger, you should test them. If they're faded (which won't necessarily be visible to the naked eye), you won't be able to get as much contrast as you want; it's easily solved by buying new multigrade filters.

analoguey · Sep 9, 2014

Okay. so I should get the M39 than the Leica thread mounts.
On the filters, okay - I will see what's available with them.

paul_c5x4 · Sep 9, 2014

polyglot said:
LTM is 39mm diameter and 26 tpi (26 threads per inch). Enlarger lenses are M39x1, i.e. 1mm pitch..

You sure about that ???

All my enlarging lenses are either 39mmx26tpi (LTM) or 50mmx0.75 - Just checked with Rodenstock, and all their M39 lenses use the LTM thread.

Jim Jones · Sep 9, 2014

A Nikon brochure from the 1970s http://members.quicknet.nl/jg.buitenhuis/Macro/El%20Nikkor%20Brochure.pdf gives 39mmx26tpi for enlarging lenses up through 135mm focal lengths.

analoguey · Sep 9, 2014

So LTM == M39 in some cases/most cases?

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