Buying Second Hand - What to look out for? Toyo 45Aii

kahlheins · Jan 3, 2022

Hi there,

I am picking up a second and Toyo 45Aii later today. Is there anything in particular to check for when buying these second hand? Any parts that are prone to failure/wear that are worth checking? From the advertisement, the camera seems to be in very good shape. I'll bring a torch to (at least roughly) check the bellows for light leaks.

I purchased it with a lens, so will also check timing on the lens as well as optical condition, aperture, etc.

Rob Skeoch · Jan 3, 2022

Watch for odd bends in the bellows, once they get creased they're really hard to get back on track. Watch for wear marks in weird spots. Most damage is done when folding up the unit so try it a few times.
Check if the lens has a black shutter face, or chrome. Both are very old at this point but the black ones were the latest generation, about forty years ago, making the chrome ones really old.

BradS · Jan 3, 2022

in general, when contemplating the purchase of any field camera, I always looks for the following: (not any any particular order, and NOT specific to the Toyo Field)
hack job repairs, DiY "improvements" and creative substitutions
musty smell
mold, mildew, fungus, rust
water damage
missing knobs
missing screws
any other missing parts or parts that appear to have been substituted with non-standard parts
bent metal parts, including the shafts that the knobs turn (knobs that are wobbly when rotated)
misalignment of the sub-assemblies that comprise the bed
cracked or broken wooden parts
loose fit, overly tight fit,
skips, jumps, grinding or any other non-uniformity of motion in the focus mechanism
signs of damage, harsh use or mistreatment

Steve Goldstein · Jan 3, 2022

And don’t forget to look for pinholes in the bellows. Extend the bellows, remove the lensboard and back, and shine a flashlight around inside - use a small one so you can stick your hand in and move it around. Do this is a dimly lit room.

Last year I helped a friend sell a 45A that had belonged to his late father. Every corner of the bellows had pinholes! Replacing the bellows cost nearly $400 all-in.

BradS · Jan 3, 2022

Yes, absolutely! Nothing is a bigger buzz kill than buying a camera and discovering the bellows have pinholes!
...and don't get suckered into the, "I just throw the dark cloth over the bellows", horseshit.

kahlheins · Jan 3, 2022

Thank you for all the advice. A bellows replacement on the 45A seems to be rather tricky from what I found online. I'll definitely keep an eye our. How easy would be an improvised fix for very few small pinholes? Worth buying the camera at some discount in that case, or best to leave it completely?

jtk · Jan 3, 2022

Most pinholes are easily and permanently fixed with a spot of liquid electric tape...available most most big hardware stores.

If any of the drive gears is significantly worn that would be evidence of abuse and replacements would be difficult to find.

IMO Toyo 45s are easily equal to Sinar etc .

BradS · Jan 3, 2022

kahlheins said:
Thank you for all the advice. A bellows replacement on the 45A seems to be rather tricky from what I found online. I'll definitely keep an eye our. How easy would be an improvised fix for very few small pinholes? Worth buying the camera at some discount in that case, or best to leave it completely?

There are many that are in perfectly good condition and offered at reasonable a price. There is no reason to accept one in poor condition...even if at a discount. It will be false economy. Far better to buy one that is in good working condition that is ready to use.

It's not clear if you are new to large format or not so, please forgive me if you are familiar....
Large format offers so many new, exquisite and innovative ways to screw up....it is definitely better to start with known good equipment and materials. This is not a place or time to buy cheap shit - which will prove to be false economy.

Bob S · Jan 3, 2022

jtk said:
Most pinholes are easily and permanently fixed with a spot of liquid electric tape...available most most big hardware stores.

If any of the drive gears is significantly worn that would be evidence of abuse and replacements would be difficult to find.

IMO Toyo 45s are easily equal to Sinar etc .

That bellows fix just makes the bellows less flexible. And if they have begun in one place they will soon develop in other places.
If the bellows has pinholes, or other defects the only cure is a new bellows.

jtk · Jan 3, 2022

Bob S said:
That bellows fix just makes the bellows less flexible. And if they have begun in one place they will soon develop in other places.
If the bellows has pinholes, or other defects the only cure is a new bellows.

Standard Photrio theory: "Just go out and buy stuff."

Liquid electrical tape is one of many reliable fixes for pinholes. We're talking about pinholes, not about antique bellows that are falling apart.

Bob S · Jan 3, 2022

jtk said:
Standard Photrio theory: "Just go out and buy stuff."

Liquid electrical tape is one of many reliable fixes for pinholes. We're talking about pinholes, not about antique bellows that are falling apart.

Once pinholes develop they will continue to develop. Replacing the bellows is the only cure.

kahlheins · Jan 4, 2022

Brief update: I ended up going against some of the advice here and purchased the camera despite it having pinholes in the corners of the bellows. I'd rather fix up a camera rather than let it eventually end up being tossed out. I negotiated an appropriate discount that makes up for getting the bellows replaced.

The camera also had a faulty focus lock. I'll do a brief post later about the very easy fix, as I couldn't find any photos of it online.

Buying Second Hand - What to look out for? Toyo 45Aii

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