Buying Nikon F3. Advice, please?

Les Sarile said:

Viewing that site is sorta like opening Pandora's box . . . but not in an evil way . . .

BTW, Ken is enamored by the FM3A if that holds any sway in your decision -> Ken Rockwell on FM3A

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I like that site. Unlike Pandora's box, it's a very pure, singular and self-contained experience. A bit like reading a Unix or Sun Workstation manual.

Talking Rockwell, he also prefers the FE to the F3...

flavio81 said:

If you enjoyed an AE-1, try the Canon New F-1. I sold my Nikon F3 without any regret, and used the $$ to partly fund a mint Canon New F-1, which I consider a superior camera to the F3.

That being said, regarding your question:

- Also consider the Nikon F2 and the F4. In particular the Nikon F2AS, which at the end i liked more than my old F3.

- There are other cameras with a viewfinder that is as good or better -- for example the viewfinder of the Canon F-1N was better.

- Problems to look for on the F3:

a. Button for AE lock falls down and gets lost.

b. Bottom caps get lost

c. Slow operating shutter mechanism (i.e. you press the shutter button but it does not immediately fire)

d. Meter does not operate (i.e. it stays always at "-" indication on the LCD display)

e. LCD display faded too much (it could happen, i have not heard about it)

f. FRE resistor broken -- this is meter failure, because the aperture of the lens would not be transmitted correctly to the camera body. Look for damage around the collar where the flash shoe is mounted. This is sort of a design flaw -- if the flash is knocked strongly, this would then knock the flash accesory mounting collar (around the top of the rewind knob), and below this is the FRE resistor disc. Which would get damage. There is info around this on the web.

g. Double exposure lever mechanism stuck or not operating correctly, due to wrong assembly or corrosion.

h. LED illuminator light does not work anymore -- happens in MANY cameras.

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I'm not sure I enjoyed the AE1 or not. I just used it. It worked and I did all my work on it over two years. I don't miss it because I can't remember what it even felt like, apart from the little DOF preview button, which somehow sticks in my mind..

That's a huge and sobering list of potential problems to look out for, with the F3. I will resist jumping into this. It's not going to be simple, but the interchangeable finders and the idea of a 28mm f2.8 AIS lens helps me focus.

mr.datsun said:

Talking Rockwell, he also prefers the FE to the F3...

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He states, "I've never been a fan of the FE2 because it wastes two frames at the beginning of every roll. The FE and this FM3a don't."
The F3, FA and FG also "wastes" two frames at the beginning of every new roll installed because prior to position 1 of the film counter, the shutter is preset to sync speed when in autoexposure mode to "assist" the photog in advancing a newly installed roll of film. Otherwise, the unwitting photog would get a long exposure with the lens cap on.

mr.datsun said:

I'm not sure I enjoyed the AE1 or not. I just used it. It worked and I did all my work on it over two years. I don't miss it because I can't remember what it even felt like, apart from the little DOF preview button, which somehow sticks in my mind..

That's a huge and sobering list of potential problems to look out for, with the F3. I will resist jumping into this. It's not going to be simple, but the interchangeable finders and the idea of a 28mm f2.8 AIS lens helps me focus.

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There are many highly reliable Nikon MF cameras: F, FE, FM, F2, many Nikkormats... The F3 simply usually gets a lot of use because of being professional, and this opens the potential for more problems, because of being more sophisticated. If you were looking for other camera, like the F or the Nikkormats, there would be another list of potential problems as well. But my list was only so you can test every little point. Chances are that the F3 you find will be working at 100%, save perhaps for the LED illuminator light bulb. (Read the manual on how to operate it)

mr.datsun said:

Talking Rockwell, he also prefers the FE to the F3...

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Me too. Manual exposure is easier to do in the FE because of the match needle system. On the F3 is ackward -- tiny "+/-" indications on the tiny LED.

The FE was perhaps my favorite compact Nikon until i got the FG.
The FE2 is an excellent camera as well!

flavio81 said:

Chances are that the F3 you find will be working at 100%, save perhaps for the LED illuminator light bulb. (Read the manual on how to operate it)

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flavio81 said:

On the F3 is ackward -- tiny "+/-" indications on the tiny LED.

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I am sure you meant LCD instead of LED in both instances.

Typical kayberd fault!

But the OP needs to look through the F3 finder and needs to dry fire once.

You reject a camera if you can't live with it.

If he can use an Exakta he does not need auto.

Only the F or F2 is similar...

Unless YOU Know the camera has been gone through by a tech.....I would buy the best Cosmetic Condition F3 you can afford, and just plan on spending another 150-200 bux to send it to a qualified tech, and have them take it apart, clean, lube, time the shutter, calibrate the meter, etc etc.
There is No F3 for sale that will be 100%, unless it is for sale by a tech that just straightened it out.
good luck

PDH said:

I used both the F2 and F3 when I was working as a PJ in the 70s and 80s. The F3 is a fine camera, but for not much more money you can get a F4 or 5. Both have high flash sync, built in motor, multiple exposure modes and a much better meter. The F4 is often called the best manual focus body Nikon ever made, the F5 has the 3D meter. I believe that Nikon is still servicing the F5. Finding the waist level or critical view finders takes some doing and costs more than a waist level.

The advantage of the F3 over the F4 or 5 is weight, in most circumstances you don't need to carry the motor drive.

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+1

Buy a newer body for better overall condition.

Or buy an F2 (F2AS if you can as has been suggested) for total mechanical reliability.

Actually from Owning 4-6 F3's and helping many to buy them I strongly disagree with the suggestion that you have a CLA done on it straight away. These are very very durable units; if they are operational they will tend to stay that way for many many rolls. Doing "preventative CLA" is asking for trouble unless its broke. If its lightly to moderately used in all likelyhood it will be a fine camera. Now not that I've come across some F3's that have some trouble, but its been my own personal vast experience that either that body works fine Or It Doesn't. Intermittent issues with an F3 usually come from a cracked FRE and the impact damage is sign (if the top cover wasn't swapped without changing).

I would either go for a mechanical Pre F3 body, or for the FA and even F100. The one and only advantage of the F3 could be its interchangeable screens, but after 4 years I have only one with it and never bothered buying another one.
The F3 is a good looking camera but with nothing special on it to make it stand out.

Thanks for all the new advice - especially finding a good unit.

Les Sarile said:

He states, "I've never been a fan of the FE2 because it wastes two frames at the beginning of every roll. The FE and this FM3a don't."
The F3, FA and FG also "wastes" two frames at the beginning of every new roll installed because prior to position 1 of the film counter, the shutter is preset to sync speed when in autoexposure mode to "assist" the photog in advancing a newly installed roll of film. Otherwise, the unwitting photog would get a long exposure with the lens cap on.

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Makes it a bit hard to get the film on the dev. reel, though? The Ricoh GR1/s/v all take 37 shots. And I always have one neg on a strip by itself. I don't mind only having 36.

fotch said:

With the F3, you can change the finder to either a waste level or a reflex magnifier. You can do that also with the F2. I own both however, the F3 would be my first choice. Just like it better, more up to date.

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Thanks.

flavio81 said:

Me too. Manual exposure is easier to do in the FE because of the match needle system. On the F3 is ackward -- tiny "+/-" indications on the tiny LED.

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The Needle vs. LCD meter indicators? I like needles, too - but in some cases having lights is clearer - I've never seen the Nikon finder but with other cameras I find lights are clearer in low light. I will check the mir site for a clearer understanding.

Xmas said:

Typical kayberd fault!

But the OP needs to look through the F3 finder and needs to dry fire once.

You reject a camera if you can't live with it.

If he can use an Exakta he does not need auto.

Only the F or F2 is similar...

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It's a good point. And looking at images of the camera and VF, are not the same as trying one.

CMoore said:

Unless YOU Know the camera has been gone through by a tech.....I would buy the best Cosmetic Condition F3 you can afford, and just plan on spending another 150-200 bux to send it to a qualified tech, and have them take it apart, clean, lube, time the shutter, calibrate the meter, etc etc.
There is No F3 for sale that will be 100%, unless it is for sale by a tech that just straightened it out.
good luck

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Cosmetics are a good indication. I see many for sale from Japan that look excellent if not mint for under £200. I trust those Japanese owners and I think these shops will check them, otherwise a check up might be good.

I do not know whether there is import duty and VAT on a s/h camera into the UK, though?

zanxion72 said:

I would either go for a mechanical Pre F3 body, or for the FA and even F100. The one and only advantage of the F3 could be its interchangeable screens, but after 4 years I have only one with it and never bothered buying another one.
The F3 is a good looking camera but with nothing special on it to make it stand out.

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But at least I can start off with a High Point viewer and then try the waist-level, if I need it. I suspect for indoor work the waist-level will be better. But once I get the right finder for me needs, I think I wont need to swap.

RidingWaves said:

Actually from Owning 4-6 F3's and helping many to buy them I strongly disagree with the suggestion that you have a CLA done on it straight away. These are very very durable units; if they are operational they will tend to stay that way for many many rolls. Doing "preventative CLA" is asking for trouble unless its broke. If its lightly to moderately used in all likelyhood it will be a fine camera. Now not that I've come across some F3's that have some trouble, but its been my own personal vast experience that either that body works fine Or It Doesn't. Intermittent issues with an F3 usually come from a cracked FRE and the impact damage is sign (if the top cover wasn't swapped without changing).

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Thanks for the point of view and info. I agree that if it appears OK and has come from a dealer, I might not rush into a service. I can always ask them whether they have done one, too.

But I'm also getting the feeling that the F3 (and maybe other Nikons of this era) are pretyy robust and reliable

There will be customs charges importing from Japan to the UK. I bought an F2A off of ebay from Japan earlier in the year. They added 20% VAT & an £8 handling fee. Even with the duty I got a better condition F2 for less than it would have cost me in the UK.

Don't think that anyone has mentioned the F3's meter yet. Other Nikon's of the era had a 60/40 meter centre weighted meter. The F3 has an 80/20. It acts like a broad spot meter & I have found it very accurate in use.

I have a soft spot for the F3. Have two of them. One with an MD-4 & the other without. The one without I bought fairly cheap as a body in need to attention & got the bits from Nikon Spares to fix it. I also have the waist level finder mentioned but haven't really been that impressed with it. I only paid £20 for it off of ebay so can't complain.

The only control that I don't like on the F3 is the viewfinder illumination one. The button is very small & hard to press. it works on both my finders but doesn't give a lot of light to illuminate the LCD. If you want a Nikon with LED's for exposure then the FM2 has them, as does the F2S & AS. All are manual cameras though. (Very rare attachment for the F2 excluded)

A good place in the UK for buying an F3 could be Ffordes up in Scotland. I have had a few things from them over the years & got my F4 from them. It was as described & they give a warranty on used stuff.

I prefer my 2 F2's over the F3. Not much to go wrong with the F2 or even the F..

I've been using F3s since 1981 (my first was a regular F3) and have yet to experience any issues with any F3/HP/P I have owned.

While redundant for your stated intent, the MD4 motordrive (cheap as borscht on eBay) adds a lot to the feel and handling of the camera. It also serves as an alternative power source.

My only issue with the F3s? The dinky little button on the top of the finder to turn on the light to illuminate the aperture ring. It is decidedly awkward for any adult to use.

Les Sarile said:

I am sure you meant LCD instead of LED in both instances.

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Actually the first is incandescent light bulb and not LED.
The second is LCD.

BradleyK said:

I've been using F3s since 1981 (my first was a regular F3) and have yet to experience any issues with any F3/HP/P I have owned.

While redundant for your stated intent, the MD4 motordrive (cheap as borscht on eBay) adds a lot to the feel and handling of the camera. It also serves as an alternative power source.

My only issue with the F3s? The dinky little button on the top of the finder to turn on the light to illuminate the aperture ring. It is decidedly awkward for any adult to use.

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I must agree with you there. That thing is an decorative item as the tiny red square does look good on the black prism.

Chan Tran said:

Actually the first is incandescent light bulb and not LED.
The second is LCD.

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I read his statement differently, "Chances are that the F3 you find will be working at 100%, save perhaps for the LED illuminator light bulb." as "illuminator light bulb for the LCD". You read it differently then I did.

Ap507b said:

There will be customs charges importing from Japan to the UK. I bought an F2A off of ebay from Japan earlier in the year. They added 20% VAT & an £8 handling fee. Even with the duty I got a better condition F2 for less than it would have cost me in the UK.

Don't think that anyone has mentioned the F3's meter yet. Other Nikon's of the era had a 60/40 meter centre weighted meter. The F3 has an 80/20. It acts like a broad spot meter & I have found it very accurate in use.

I have a soft spot for the F3. Have two of them. One with an MD-4 & the other without. The one without I bought fairly cheap as a body in need to attention & got the bits from Nikon Spares to fix it. I also have the waist level finder mentioned but haven't really been that impressed with it. I only paid £20 for it off of ebay so can't complain.

The only control that I don't like on the F3 is the viewfinder illumination one. The button is very small & hard to press. it works on both my finders but doesn't give a lot of light to illuminate the LCD. If you want a Nikon with LED's for exposure then the FM2 has them, as does the F2S & AS. All are manual cameras though. (Very rare attachment for the F2 excluded)

A good place in the UK for buying an F3 could be Ffordes up in Scotland. I have had a few things from them over the years & got my F4 from them. It was as described & they give a warranty on used stuff.

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Thank-you. I worked out that on a £200 camera with £40 postage, the duty and VAT would be £60.

Les Sarile said:

I am sure you meant LCD instead of LED in both instances.

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You are right. My bad.
The display is LCD, the illuminator is supposedly a tiny light bulb.

flavio81 said:

You are right. My bad.
The display is LCD, the illuminator is supposedly a tiny light bulb.

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According to the service manual, the means of illuminating the LCD is a light bulb and not an LED.

There is a thread about the holy grail of cameras, I wrote this in April this year about my now 30 year old F3HP nikon camera.

Mick.

My first Nikon F3 was bought new in 1985 in Germany, it was thirty years old last week. I never knew what it could do, although I knew it could do a lot, but really, what it could do and what I have done with it so far, I never had any idea.

To mark its 30th birthday, I have been compiling some facts about this body in particular.

I have all four viewfinders, with the DW-4 6x magnification finder I have used the body on a microscope up to the point of near commercial quality usually only obtainable with a specialist microscope camera. This finder also works well with the body attached to bellows, allowing one to do quite extreme and accurate micro photography. Did many rainy days of fun with my bellows and extension bellows.

The DW-3 Waist level finder is really the go when the body is attached to my reproduction stand for photocopying. The waist level finder is also perfect for ground level work, as well as when the camera is against a wall.

The DA-2 Action finder was a revelation for taking pictures on the back of a motorcycle wearing a full face helmet, something I really didn’t think would work as well as it did. With the MD4 motor drive attached and the camera secured from dropping, it worked a charm. I took stills facing backwards of push bike races, a different way of getting motion sickness I can tell you.

The standard HP (High eyePoint) finder that allows full frame viewing wearing either prescription or just normal sunglasses, is perfect for all other stuff and can be used at a pinch for many other iffy ways of using the camera.

Using the body without any finder attached, saved me from missing a shot once. I stood up on the saddle of a stationary motorcycle, with a friend holding my legs to give me balance. I attached a 24mm lens, held the camera upside down with my arms raised as high as possible, composed the picture on the focusing screen and fired away. One frame worked, I only needed one frame.

The F3 has about 20 focusing screens, all of my Nikons run the type E. This type has a series of horizontal and vertical lines to aid in composition, especially with vertical and horizontal alignment. I have the Type C for microscope work, the Type D for use when, (at the time) I was hiring an 800mm lens.

I have the DB2 Anti-Cold Battery Pack, this is an accessory I have never seen anyone else using. It uses a couple of AA batteries and has a 1 metre lead that ends in a substitute for the button cell in-house batteries. In very cold weather, you keep this attached to the F3 body and the DB2 inside your jacket, attach the DA-2 action finder so you can see the viewfinder wearing goggles, wear big warm gloves, and fire away all day. I used this in the European Alps down to -30ºC for one whole day of shooting. The camera was fine, but I was a wreck, my knee joints were really not too good the next day.

Photographing some stills for a television commercial I somehow got talked into allowing my F3 body be used for a particular and different look. The body had the MD4 drive attached, plus it had the MF-4 250 frame magazine back attached. An external power supply to power the MD4 motor drive continuously at the maximum frame rate of 6 frames per second with the mirror locked up was also attached. The sturdiest tripod in the world was used and we were off. We went through about 20 lots of 240-250 frames of film before the director was satisfied. Then we had a late lunch while the film was developed in a 300mm wide roller transport processor. It apparently was successful. The end product was about 8 seconds of disjointed movements in B&W, in the middle of a 28 second colour advertisement, that almost no-one ever saw. I have no idea how much that little part cost in making the commercial, but it took 2 days to source the various components, plus couriers and a couple of taxis to get everything together before we could begin.

Sometimes I attached the MF-18 Multi-Function film back to the body, this is very handy when shooting the finish line of a school race that every student is running in. I turn the numbering function on and a sequential four digit number is imprinted between frames, allowing the record to show just who came where. The kids are fine, it is the parents who demand proof that their child was so far down the score sheet. The sequential numbering fixed that problem up. I used two F3 bodies and borrowed another photographers MF-18 for that shoot. These days they use video cameras to do this, but back then, it was pretty cool.

My F3 body has been attached to a Telescope, a Microscope, a Riflescope, a Spotting scope, reproduction stand, bellows and last but not least, my myriad of tripods. I even have a Nikon Speedlight SB-17, hardly ever used, but I have it.

Probably the best things that attach to my F3, are my Nikkor and Sigma lenses. Some are pretty good, some are really good, some, are just out of this world. I own lenses from 18mm through to 600mm. I have used lenses from 8mm to 800mm.

The second best thing I attach to my F3 body, is all of the different film that has been run through it. Last year I took this F3 to Europe for a three month holiday, it was during that holiday and pretty much living with the camera whenever I was awake, I thought it was about time to give it a bit of a rest. There was nothing wrong with it, there still isn’t anything wrong with it, but it was a bit tired. Not that you could name what it was, it just sounded a bit tired, but still worked faultlessly. It doesn’t look too flash any more, it is heavily brassed in places, and there are wear grooves in the body in places from straps and metal things on straps and from my belt buckle before I changed my belt. My second F3 body was bought new 28 years ago, it belongs to my wife who doesn’t use it any more, it is still pretty pristine.

I took the newer F3 body for a holiday of a few weeks, a short time ago. The difference was amazing. The film winder felt silky smooth, no bearing ratchetting felt through the thumb.

The LCD display in the viewfinder is working perfectly, not just when the sun wasn’t shining directly onto the front of the camera.

The film back sits flat and doesn’t wobble like the old one does after I did some panel beating of the film back after dropping the camera on some rocks.

The manual shutter release also works very smoothly. I found out that lying in a sleeping bag just inside a tent and having a long thin piece of plastic pipe taped to the manual shutter release, so I wouldn’t have to get out of my warm sleeping bag to trip the shutter on the T setting for a 4 hour night shot, made the manual shutter release a bit ratchety.

The huge dent in the pentaprism top of the view finder, isn’t there either, that happened after falling off a motorcycle taking pictures of a pushbike competition sitting backwards and getting motion sickness.

The shutter and mirror slap of the new F3 is not quiet, F3 shutters and mirrors are quite loud, but it is whisper quiet compared to my original F3. The fact that the new F3 has less than 1,000 rolls of film though it, is probably why it sounds so crispy quiet.

When I attach the MD4 motor drive, the drive and the body align perfectly, the F3 body and drive had slight alignment issues after being kicked by a footballer who missed the football and kicked the bottom of the motor drive. The footballer had his eye on the camera so he wouldn’t kick it, would you believe. I also found out just what the excess insurance premium was, for a hired Nikkor 8mm lens that day.

Aside from those slight blemishes, my 30 year old F3 works virtually as perfectly as the day I bought it.

When I bought my First F3 body 30 years ago, I really didn’t know what, or how good and versatile it was going to be. I now know that it is the complete camera for me, in effect, it is my holy grail.

zanxion72 said:

I would either go for a mechanical Pre F3 body, or for the FA and even F100. The one and only advantage of the F3 could be its interchangeable screens, but after 4 years I have only one with it and never bothered buying another one.
The F3 is a good looking camera but with nothing special on it to make it stand out.

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Not true. Mirror lock up! Important feature to many pro's & serious amateurs. Also, interchangeable finders. DW-4 6x magnification finder. High Eye point finders to those who wear glasses. Its a fast to use camera.

Les Sarile said:

According to the service manual, the means of illuminating the LCD is a light bulb and not an LED.

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The problem for me was the time out after pushing the illuminate button was too short and the LCD was too dark without the illumination. So I sold it.

Mick Fagan said:

There is a thread about the holy grail of cameras, I wrote this in April this year about my now 30 year old F3HP nikon camera.

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Nice camera but I don't think it is the Holy grail of cameras. Not even inside the nikon camp.

I still have some F3 focusing screens left in my arsenal, but sold the F3 in favor of a F2AS+FG combo and never looked back.