Buying Equipment from KEH

declark · Dec 31, 2008

I've gotten KEH BGN lenses before that would normally be considered Ebay MINT but I've also gotten a beater before too, but still very usable. If I recall correctly, KEH has a 14 day return policy if you aren't happy (probably the shipping charge would be the only gamble) and a 60 day warranty to boot.

ChrisPlatt · Dec 31, 2008

In many purchases I have never been disappointed with a BGN lens from KEH.

Chris

Loose Gravel · Dec 31, 2008

I've purchased two BGN cameras from KEH. Both were great. On one, someone had scraped off the name of the camera, very carefully, so that the camera was unmarked. Otherwise that camera was perfect. The second, a Nikonos, said 'engraved'. Someone had written their name with a permanent marker on the soft plastic back and the filter ring was dented slightly. The writing was mostly cleaned off, but it was still visible. The filter ring I didn't need so I live with it. I'll fix it later.

If you want to know why an item is BGN, you can call and ask them to call you back when they have the item in their hands. They will tell you what they see.

removed-user-1 · Jan 2, 2009

BGN can be, well, a bargain.

Hello all, I'm new, this is my first post. I have purchased from KEH for many years and my only complaint is that they don't let you go to their store and browse! They have a great inventory and a great return policy.

My experience with the BGN grade items has varied. I got a Nikon 28-70/3.5-4.5 that had a sticky zoom ring but is otherwise great, and a Tamron 2x converter with some rub marks right in the center of the front element that didn't seem to affect image quality (but it's a paperweight these days). The worst item I ever bought from them was a super-cheap prism for my RB67; it was mechanically fine but it was simply filthy, inside and out! An hour of cleaning, and I had it looking very good indeed.

Any used camera/lens can have problems. I bought an F4 from them in EX+ condition, and it had a bad aperture lever . I sent it back and they sent me another one; this time a very late-model F4, almost the last made with a serial number of 25xxxxx which works perfectly.

mikebarger · Jan 2, 2009

Welcome to APUG!!!

Mike

Phillip P. Dimor · Jan 2, 2009

I've bought a few items through KEH, all used.
A Hasselblad 503cx in bargain condition came to me in what I consider ex+ with the exception of the internal flocking having cracked. That's apparently very common and it isn't floating around inside the camera. Also the screen, an acute matte (nice!) had pencil marks on the underneath to indicate an 8x10 cropped image. Otherwise I got a steal.

The back and insert didn't match (I knew this), but back was from the 80s, the insert from the 70s. The back itself was in fine shape, the insert looked like it had been smashed against something at some point. It works fine, i'm happy for what I paid.

I just wish you could go visit them and walk through the store. I worked with a guy who would go up there every once in a while.. told stories of 'isles' of display cases stacked with hassy's and leicas.. boxes of stuff you could sort through.

That's my kind of vacation!

Although I ended up buying the lens off ebay.. I got a fair deal on the lens but I was lucky. I usually prefer KEH for certain things as their price tends to be lower. Plus they have an excellent return policy and the customer service has been top-notch for me.

Chris Nielsen · Jan 2, 2009

I've bought a few things off them, all BGN. Apart from one lens having faulty autofocus (which they replaced no problem) they've all been perfect optically with one or two minor cosmetic issues which suits me just fine. My big whinge is that our currency has fallen to the point where it's almost twice as expensive to buy from them now. Oh well...

Sirius Glass · Jan 2, 2009

2F/2F said:
Remember that BGN *is* their second-worst condition. UG is the next one down. According to their percentages, a BGN rating is like getting a C grade in a class. The low end of a C is almost a non-passing grade, and the high end of a C is almost a B.

2F/2F,

You are wrong. A D is still passing. Therefore BGN is from C- to C+ and UG is from D- to D+. They have non-operational cameras in there Collector Items.

Steve

JohnBrew · Jan 2, 2009

I've purchased many items from KEH and also sold items to them. Never a problem, great return policy. They have my highest recommendation.

2F/2F · Jan 2, 2009

Sirius Glass said:
2F/2F,

You are wrong. A D is still passing. Therefore BGN is from C- to C+ and UG is from D- to D+. They have non-operational cameras in there Collector Items.

Steve

Where is a D passing? I want to go to THAT school!

Sirius Glass · Jan 2, 2009

2F/2F said:
Where is a D passing? I want to go to THAT school!

Any elementary, middle school, or high school will have a D as a passing grade.
Any college or university for undergraduate work will have a D as a passing grade. Grad school work will have a C as a passing grade.

Steve

2F/2F · Jan 2, 2009

Sirius Glass said:
Any elementary, middle school, or high school will have a D as a passing grade.
Any college or university for undergraduate work will have a D as a passing grade. Grad school work will have a C as a passing grade.

Steve

I highly dispute this. No school I have ever attended (all public) has ever allowed a D to pass to the next class or get degree credit. This includes the CC I currently attend.

I am reading my school catalog right now. Degree requirements are not counted by the school, or for transfer to public universities unless they are completed "with a minimum grade of C".

I thought that some grad. schools require Bs to pass, not Cs.

Also, the analogy holds either way! A D is 60- 69.9% (pretty bad) whether it is "passing" or not! Even if it is "passing" at some places, you can bet that "barely satisfactory" or some similar phrase is part of the official description of the mark.

white.elephant · Jan 2, 2009

I taught in a graduate program at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, and students needed to get a 'B' to get credit for the class, there was no 'C' grade. It was the same when I attended the school as a grad student in the late 70's. I don't know about any other institution.

removed-user-1 · Jan 2, 2009

Confession - I was a college administrator for four years. At most undergraduate programs, a D is a passing grade FOR AN INDIVIDUAL COURSE, however most bachelor's degree PROGRAMS require an overall GPA of 2.0 (C) for graduation (sometimes higher), and also any course with prerequisites will require a C in the previous course (but usually you can take any given course up to three times and have at least a couple semesters of "probation"). It's amazing how much damage a single C, D or F can do to an otherwise great GPA.

Graduate school is much tighter. Generally a graduate program won't award a degree to a student with a cumulative GPA of less than 3.0 (B), and not more than one repeated course. At the graduate level, if you make a C in a course required for your program, you are on very thin ice, and you won't get more than a semester to bring your grades up.

I think it's safe to say that a "bargain" grade lens (from KEH or anywhere else) gets a C grade, and an "ugly" lens gets a D/F. Would I buy bargain gear like this? Maybe, but I doubt I'd use it on a job I was getting paid to complete.

2F/2F · Jan 2, 2009

My whole point was that bargain could be anywhere from "a notch above terrible", to "good enough:, to "pretty OK".

Nick Zentena · Jan 3, 2009

The problem with the reasoning is it's a subjective grading system. Not an objective one. There are hard graders. There are easy graders.

KEH grades tougher then many others.

PhotoJim · Jan 3, 2009

I think the problem being had here is that letter grades mean different things. In some places, a B is 80-89%. In other places a B is 70-79%.

Where I live, we tend to use percentage grades. A 50 is a passing grade in high school and undergraduate work (although you need a 65% GPA to earn a degree). A graduate degree has a 70 as a passing grade.

lns · Jan 3, 2009

I have bought a lot from KEH. They are great. But I do consider bargain a crap shoot. The bargain items I have received have ranged from practically mint to been-through-the-wars. Sometimes you would save so much that it's worth taking the chance. At worst, with their wonderful return policy, you'd be out some time and the shipping expenses. Otherwise, Ex is a safe floor.

It also depends on what you are buying. I have found that with popular or well-stocked items (say, a Nikkor 50/1.8 AIS), bargains have been in fine condition. For more thinly stocked or scarce items, in my experience the bargain rating really has meant "not so great." But then there are the very overstocked or unpopular items, which I suspect they may rate as bargain just to move the merchandise.

-Laura

removed account4 · Jan 3, 2009

i have bought from keh over the years and would not hesitate to buy from them again if i was in
the market for gear. large format lenses were nearly mint that i bought them as bgn,
as were 35mm pentax lenses ( have bought 2 lf and 3 pentax lenses from them )
i also got a p/s camera in an unopened sealed box listed as bargain .. for 19$ ...

keh's return policy is great, and if you can actually get a return policy from an eBoo seller i am sure
that would be great too. eBoo seems to be OK for things you can't find in places like keh, or mpex
or other known dealers ... like brass or large format portrait lenses, or antique box cameras ... but as stated
before it can be a difficult experience when sellers claim to be srgnt schultz: ( i know nothing, nothing ... )
... at least a business knows the customer is always right, and they have a reputation to keep nice-nice ...
a bad eBoo seller doesn't really care much, will harrass you for giving them negative feedback knowing
there is a sucker born every minute ( who doesn't read feedback ratings, or things maybe because
they haven't gotten anything negative for a few weeks the seller has turned over a new leaf ) ...

unohuu · Jan 4, 2009

Never had a bad purchase from KEH. I have Minolta, Nikon, KonicaMinolta, (the most recent is a Mamiya 80mm f/1.9) lenses. I have motor drives, prism for the 645, and an N90s that was magnificent, but I couldn't get used to the one wheel. (F4 has none and the F100 has two).

I love these threads about KEH and eBay. It is a reminder that there are incredible bargains out there and that there are now so many ways to find the great glass, bodies and peripherals that we need and want. Imagine all this with just a telephone and two week old Shutterbug ad.

I have had to send eBay items back and I have actually just kept some of the loser items for parts. Of course, that is because overall I have exceeded my expectations with most purchases. Last loser was a Yashica Lynx 5000e. It is just a parts camera now. I am OK with that because earlier in the year I found a GSN at the resale store down the street from my house (works beautifully after a refurb and clean).

Happy hunting and happier shooting.

John Jarosz · Jan 4, 2009

I just bought a 2x tele extender for my son's Hasselblad. $17 for Bargain grade. It looked new except for for some dirt smudges on the barrel. They wiped off. What a deal.

John

Crono · Feb 16, 2009

how long will it take from KEH to UK?

Finally, i ordered a F2s from them

they said it usually takes 3-4 weeks and the camera was shipped on the 12 Feb.

i am wondering if it will really take that long!?
or if they are just telling me that so i wouldn't bomb them by email?

oh, i chose FedEx...

really hope it will come earlier...

Bob F. · Feb 16, 2009

Dunno as not used KEH but you should be able to track it online - they should email you a tracking number. An LF camera I bought from Badger that came via FedEx some time ago took just 2 days - of which one day was spent in UK customs...

Ian Grant · Feb 16, 2009

It will depend on how FedEx have shipped it, if it's gone by sea the up to 3-4 weeks is quite normal but it can be quicker, if it's gone by air then it could be anything between 2-3 days to a week.

You should have had a choice of priority delivery which is much more expensive but much faster, the normal service from FedEx, UPS etc isn't too bad but expect to have to pay Import duty of approx 20% plus there may be a small handling fee from FedEx for collecting the Tax.

IAn

Stan160 · Feb 16, 2009

KEH have always shipped USPS to me, and not offered a choice of a faster service - mind you I was happy with the cheap option so never asked for an upgrade.

3-4 weeks is normal. If it gets picked up for import duty assessment, which everything I have ordered from KEH has, then it can take another week or two before the Royal Mail get the item out to the local sorting office and put a card through your door.

Buying Equipment from KEH

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