Buying a Medium Format Camera for Street/Travel Photography

[Bipin]

Hello,

For a few years now I've used a RB67 as my go-to street and travel photography. It's a great camera and I love it dearly, but it doesn't exactly fulfill my needs. After using it for a while, I've come to the conclusion that I need a smaller, lighter system, ideally one with the ability to use movements on occasion and one which is quick to focus. Mostly though, it's size and weight that is the problem. I can carry the RB67 handheld for two hours before I get tired, but its size can just be outright unwieldy for street photography. In looking for a suitable replacement, I've narrowed down my search to the following:

Mamiya Super 23:
(+) A few rear movements for the few times when I need them. Just pull out a tabletop/clamp tripod, the GG back and go.
(+) Rangefinder.
(+) Big 6x9 negative.
(+) Excellent film flatness.
(+) Robust (or so I've heard).
(+) Lightweight (by my standards).
(?) What's the size like compared to a RB67? I want something that can fit in a backpack or messenger bag.
(?) I'm used to rack and pinion focusing with the RB67, but would helical be even better for what street photography demands?
(-) Haven't heard great things about the lenses.
(-) Poor lens selection: Apparently I can only achieve infinity focus when using tilt/swing in combination with the collapsible 3.5/100 or 3.5/90.
(-) From what I've heard, the aforementioned lenses are not that great. Certainly worse than RB67 lenses (I currently use a 4.5/180 C and a 3.5/75 K/L which is excellent).

Horseman 970/980/985:
(+) Folds up into a nice, compact box. Easy to store in a bag and I don't have to worry about scratching the lens. If I wanted to travel light, I could put the camera on a strap. Everything I need is self-contained inside a little folding box.
(+) Lightweight (3.5 to 4.4 lbs).
(+) I can use virtually any lens I want when working with the ground glass back.
(+) Small lensboard, small lenses that are easy to store. I've already got a few LF lenses that would work nicely with this camera.
(+) Great range of movements. I do mostly street photography, so the RF would be most often used, but it's nice to have movements when I need them for landscapes/architecture. Just pull out a tabletop/clamp tripod, the GG back and go. I don't imagine the camera plus those accessories would take up too much room.
(+) I doubt I would, but if I ever wanted to I could shoot 4x5 with this thing. At least it's an option.
(+) Rangefinder.
(+) From what I hear, the RF/VF is good for users wearing glasses.
(?) Rangefinder is not combined with viewfinder. Is it possible to use my left eye for the VF and right eye for the RF, even when wearing glasses?
(?) Rack and pinion focus. I'm used to it with the RB67, but would helical still be quicker?
(-) Am I crazy to even think I could focus quickly with this camera?
(-) How hand-holdable is it?

Technika Press 23:
(+) It seems to have everything I want.
(-) Money.
(-) Weight and size.

Rollei SL66:
(+) Tilt function.
(+) SLR design allows movements to be used in real-time so to speak; I don't have to switch backs.
(+) The focal plane shutter allows various lenses to be adapted.
(+) Rack and pinion focus.
(?) Size could be a problem.
(-) Is it really that much better than what I have currently in respect to size?
(-) Only a 6x6. I have an Autocord for that. (although 12 frames per roll would be nice).
(-) A bit pricey.

I would greatly appreciate some help in choosing a camera system. Are the systems I've outlined pretty much all that exist which fulfill my criteria? As stated earlier, I want a something that can act as my go-to camera; something for everyday shooting that is compact and transportable with the option of selective focus at the least or at most having a mini technical camera.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hasselblad is smaller and lighter. Parts and service are readily available. They are well build and they can handle heavy usage. Besides according to Hasselblad square is the perfect format.

 

[Mark Fisher]

Do you do your own printing? If so, you can correct for perspective in the darkroom. It isn't as easy as in the camera, but if it is something you don't do often, maybe it is a good solution. I use a Hasselblad normally and a Fuji rangefinder when I travel for business. In both cases, I can frame loosely and correct the perspective issue by tilting my enlarger head and easel. It is a bit of a pain, but I don't have to do it often. Then, you Autocord or a fuji or Mamiya rangefinder may be great.....especially if you want handholdable.

 

[chris77]

maybe this is perfect for you..?

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

its a very good offer imo.

 

[aRolleiBrujo]

Pentacon Six TL, because, I love mine, and its cool, plus it uses Zeiss lenses!

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Linhof Technika 70 is the cat's meow:

http://www.shutterbug.com/content/classic-camerasbrthe-linhof-technika-70

 

[Jesper]

Do you need movements for street photography? Perhaps a 6x6 TLR could be used for this and a 4"x5" Field camera when you need movements.

 

[baachitraka]

A simple Rolleicord(pref., later modes such as Va/Vb for slightly brighter/uniform screen) will do a great job on the street.

I do not know how easy to handle a camera with movements on the street, if you are not mounting on the tripod.

 

[Dali]

Mamiya C220 (lightler than the C330), Yashica MAT or a 'Cord.

 

[RattyMouse]

Fujifilm GF670. 6 x 7 format (also shoots 6 x 6), folds up to pocket size for my winter jacket or slings over my shoulder in a heart beat during summer months. I carry it all over Asia. Best street camera I've ever used.

 

[dreamingartemis]

Can you at least specify a budget range? Sure there are a lot of good portable medium format cameras, but those can be expensive.

 

[Bipin]

Thank you for the replies everyone, you've all been quite helpful. As far as perspective correction goes, it's something I'd prefer to do in-camera since I do not have access to an enlarger. As a student, I don't have much money besides what I've spent on/been given in terms of film, lenses and scanners; I have a v600 and often print digitally. I've worked out a deal with a local printer, so its quite economical for me. Besides that, I just simply don't have space for a darkroom; as it is developing has been relegated to the kitchen sink.

I have a friend who uses a 4x5 Speed Graphic on a small tabletop tripod/clamp with great results. For the times I'd want to use movements, I imagine I could do something similar. More than anything, I want a portable kit that has the option of being a technical camera if need be. A small tripod, a cable release and a 6x9 ground-glass back shouldn't take up too much room in a bag. For everything else, I'd use the camera handheld with its rangefinder. This brings me to the suggestion of the Technika 70. Looking at the current prices on eBay, it's actually something I could afford. Looking at its key features, it also seems to be a camera that would work very well for me. Almost like the best of both worlds when it comes to the Horseman and the Mamiya Press. What would really seal the deal for me is if I could use my Linhof/Schneider 90mm f/6.8 with it. If I bought a 90mm cam, would it be possible to use this lens I currently own with the Technika 70's rangefinder? I know each cam was modified for manufacturing variances in the lenses, but could I adjust the rangefinder to compensate for this?

Besides the Technika 70, none of the other cameras mentioned in the replies suit my needs for one reason or another. At this moment, the Technika 70, Mamiya Super 23 and Horseman 970/980/985 are the ones in consideration. Here are my concerns with each.

• As previously stated, I want something that is compact. At least more so than my current RB67. The Mamiya Press is a good size and the 50mm Biogon is a spectacular lens. The problem is, can I use this lens at infinity with movements? If not, how close can I get to infinity? The collapsible lenses (3.5/100 and 3.5/90) are not good performers. Worse than what I currently have by all accounts.
• How quickly can I focus with a Horseman 6x9 (e.g. 970, 980, 985)? Is the the wheel for the rack and pinion system too fiddly to reliably use handheld? That's really the only concern I have with this camera. I love everything else about it. The Horseman seems to be a good camera that I can travel with, without it taking up too much room yet still being able to perform a variety of tasks.

Thank you for the help everyone. It's greatly appreciated!

EDIT: As far as budget goes, I'm looking for something under $600, but ideally half of that. With the small amount of money I currently have allocated to photography, plus funds from the prospective sale of my RB67, a Mamiya Super 23 or Horseman are certainly within reach. The Technika 70 is cutting it close.

 

[removed account4]

Bipin
late to the party, i know .. but ---
have you ever considered a Koni Omega camera ?
workhorse cameras with a variety of lenses and backs
that might suit your needs ( and there are still people who
work on them, and its footprint is kind of small if this important ).

 

[ic-racer]

Is your Schneider a 6.8 Angulon? If so the focal length is 90.4mm. From what I can tell the Horseman 90mm lens is 90.0mm and I suspect the Horseman cam will work fine with your lens. I have never used a Mamiya RB67, but the Horsmean 6x9 VH-R is quite a big camera. For smooth shutter release I use the Horseman electric solenoid, otherwise the mechanical plunger cable release was causing some camera movement.

 

[Bipin]

Bipin
late to the party, i know .. but ---
have you ever considered a Koni Omega camera ?
workhorse cameras with a variety of lenses and backs
that might suit your needs ( and there are still people who
work on them which is important ).

Yes, I have heard of it, but for whatever reason I hadn't really explored it as an option. I'll take a better look, thanks for reminding me of it!

Is your Schneider a 6.8 Angulon? If so the focal length is 90.4mm. From what I can tell the Horseman 90mm lens is 90.0mm and I suspect the Horseman cam will work fine with your lens. I have never used a Mamiya RB67, but the Horsmean 6x9 VH-R is quite a big camera. For smooth shutter release I use the Horseman electric solenoid, otherwise the mechanical plunger cable release was causing some camera movement.

Yes, it is a Schneider 6.8/90 Angulon in the original Linhof-branded Synchro Compur. That's good news to hear about its compatibility with the Horseman. As far as the Technika 70 goes, if I found a 90mm cam for it, could I use it on that as well?

 

[ToddB]

The Rolleiflex cameras are fantastic for Street photography. Compact unit with a lot of horse power.

Todd

 

[summicron1]

The Rolleiflex cameras are fantastic for Street photography. Compact unit with a lot of horse power.

Todd

not to be too unserious, but if it is small and light and MF you want, go for a Holga. Doesn't get lighter.

But, only a tad more seriously, a 'cord is really excellent too. Anything heavier/bigger scares people and wears out your arm.

 

[Bipin]

As nice as a Rollei would be, I don't think I'd go the TLR route since I already have an Autocord that I love (my first camera, actually). I'd like to purchase something a little different. Based upon what I've found out since starting this thread as well as asking around elsewhere, I'm confident in narrowing it down to the Mamiya Super 23, Horseman 980, Technika 70 and perhaps the Koni-Omega. I really like the versatility of the Horseman 980 but I've got two concerns: Firstly, how much slower/faster would it be focusing with the Horseman's rack and pinion system as opposed to my current RB67's? Secondly, the Horseman uses two separate windows for the viewfinder and rangefinder. The Mamiya Super 23 and Technika 70 both use one combined window. Is a single window versus the two on the Horseman a big advantage for handheld shooting, and does it make a difference that I wear glasses? Speaking of the Mamiya, my biggest concern with that system is the lenses. Not only the quality, but also their inherent limitations. If I were to use the 50mm with a bit of tilt, how close would the focus be, seeing as the 50mm cannot collapse into the body to facilitate infinity focus while tilting/swinging the bellows?

 

[Paul Howell]

Thank you for the replies everyone, you've all been quite helpful. As far as perspective correction goes, it's something I'd prefer to do in-camera since I do not have access to an enlarger. As a student, I don't have much money besides what I've spent on/been given in terms of film, lenses and scanners; I have a v600 and often print digitally. I've worked out a deal with a local printer, so its quite economical for me. Besides that, I just simply don't have space for a darkroom; as it is developing has been relegated to the kitchen sink.

I have a friend who uses a 4x5 Speed Graphic on a small tabletop tripod/clamp with great results. For the times I'd want to use movements, I imagine I could do something similar. More than anything, I want a portable kit that has the option of being a technical camera if need be. A small tripod, a cable release and a 6x9 ground-glass back shouldn't take up too much room in a bag. For everything else, I'd use the camera handheld with its rangefinder. This brings me to the suggestion of the Technika 70. Looking at the current prices on eBay, it's actually something I could afford. Looking at its key features, it also seems to be a camera that would work very well for me. Almost like the best of both worlds when it comes to the Horseman and the Mamiya Press. What would really seal the deal for me is if I could use my Linhof/Schneider 90mm f/6.8 with it. If I bought a 90mm cam, would it be possible to use this lens I currently own with the Technika 70's rangefinder? I know each cam was modified for manufacturing variances in the lenses, but could I adjust the rangefinder to compensate for this?

Besides the Technika 70, none of the other cameras mentioned in the replies suit my needs for one reason or another. At this moment, the Technika 70, Mamiya Super 23 and Horseman 970/980/985 are the ones in consideration. Here are my concerns with each.

• As previously stated, I want something that is compact. At least more so than my current RB67. The Mamiya Press is a good size and the 50mm Biogon is a spectacular lens. The problem is, can I use this lens at infinity with movements? If not, how close can I get to infinity? The collapsible lenses (3.5/100 and 3.5/90) are not good performers. Worse than what I currently have by all accounts.
• How quickly can I focus with a Horseman 6x9 (e.g. 970, 980, 985)? Is the the wheel for the rack and pinion system too fiddly to reliably use handheld? That's really the only concern I have with this camera. I love everything else about it. The Horseman seems to be a good camera that I can travel with, without it taking up too much room yet still being able to perform a variety of tasks.

Thank you for the help everyone. It's greatly appreciated!

EDIT: As far as budget goes, I'm looking for something under $600, but ideally half of that. With the small amount of money I currently have allocated to photography, plus funds from the prospective sale of my RB67, a Mamiya Super 23 or Horseman are certainly within reach. The Technika 70 is cutting it close.

An alternative is a 2X3 Crown or Speed Graphic with a roll back, more movement than a Super Press as much as a Horseman, disadvantage is that unlike a Houseman or Lndhoff or for that matter a Super Press is that it is difficult to change lens and cams when using the ranegfinder. On the other hand a Crown Speed folds up, light, easy to shoot handheld, a standard 101 lens. With a ground glass back you can also shoot 6X9 sheet film which is still available. You can pick a crown or speed 2X3 well under $600.

 

[cowanw]

You might consider a Contax 645 with a Hartblei super rotator

 

[Bipin]

Interesting cowan, I'll have to look into that. Is the super rotator also available for the Pentax 67? Also, as far as the Mamiya Super 23 goes, would I be able to exchange the (from what I've read) poorly performing 3.5/90 with another 90mm lens (e.g. a 6.8/90 Angulon) and retain rangefinder focusing if I were to add shims to the lens, to compensate for a slight variation in focal length?

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

As a long time owner of an SL66 system I'd never recommend it for street/travel work, quite heavy and a bit awkward though it does have a good handgrip you could get. My all-time favorite MF camera for street/travel (even though it's not on your list) is the Fuji GA645. Yes a smaller negative but a lens so terrifically sharp and with such wonderful character that even at 6x4.5 it gives wonderful medium format-looking character and results. Small, compact, AF, and very good AE too. Perfect for street and travel. I recommend it highly. Results speak for themselves:

 

[cowanw]

The lens TS-PC (Tilt-Shift) Super-Rotator is manufactured with Pentacon Six (identical to Exakta 66, Kiev 60, Kiev 88CM), Mamiya 645, Contax 645 and Pentax 645 bayonet.
I wish and wonder why it is not made in a Hasselblad mount.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

The lens TS-PC (Tilt-Shift) Super-Rotator is manufactured with Pentacon Six (identical to Exakta 66, Kiev 60, Kiev 88CM), Mamiya 645, Contax 645 and Pentax 645 bayonet.
I wish and wonder why it is not made in a Hasselblad mount.

Probably 2 reasons. Either/or/both:

1: Hasselblad won't license the lens mount
2: while there are Hasselblads with focal plane shutters, the vast majority use in-lens leaf shutters. Trying to pass the aperture control from the body to the lens through a T/S adapter is hard enough, but I would imagine triggering the shutter and the aperture together would be even harder, especially when it is a mechanical trigger.

 

[Bipin]

As a long time owner of an SL66 system I'd never recommend it for street/travel work, quite heavy and a bit awkward though it does have a good handgrip you could get. My all-time favorite MF camera for street/travel (even though it's not on your list) is the Fuji GA645. Yes a smaller negative but a lens so terrifically sharp and with such wonderful character that even at 6x4.5 it gives wonderful medium format-looking character and results. Small, compact, AF, and very good AE too. Perfect for street and travel. I recommend it highly. Results speak for themselves:

Thank you for the info on the SL66; not what I wanted to hear, but I'm glad you said it. I'd hate to buy into a system that would be no better than what I currently have with respect to weight/size/bulk. As for the GA645, I agree, that's a very nice camera. I've handled one before in fact, though for a number of reasons it just isn't the camera for me. The other night I was able to Technika 70 for $500 USD on the 'bay. How's that for a price, is it worth considering? On the other hand, how feasible would it be to change the Mamiya Super 23's (apparently) poorly performing collapsible 3.5/90 with another 90mm lens (a 6.8/90 Angulon for instance) and retain rangefinder focusing if I compensated for a variation in focal length by adding shims? Is this even possible to do? There are a lot of things I like about this system (e.g. the RF/viewfinder in a single window) and the camera's form factor, but it's the lens quality I find a bit suspect. If I could remedy that, I think I'd have the camera I'm looking for.