Buying a Hasselblad Outfit

yeknom02 · Jun 19, 2010

Selling some digital gear, I'm able to put some money toward a Hasselblad 500C/M outfit on KEH.com in a few weeks. Apparently, here's what's included:

-body with waistlevel viewfinder
-80 mm lens
-A12 film back with 12 release

Should I plan on getting some more equipment to fill in any missing pieces? I don't really know the layout of a Hasselblad all that well, and I've been hearing about darkslides, darkslide holders, and all sorts of stuff. Can I assume this is standard?

Has anyone else picked up a Hasselblad outfit before? What else should I make sure my order includes in order to have a "complete" rig?

John Koehrer · Jun 19, 2010

Make sure it's got a focusing screen in the body and a darkslide for the back.
There were two 12 exposure backs, the 12 & 12A. The 12 loads like an old folding camera & has a viewing port in the back to see when you're at the first frame, then you set the counter.
The 12A you just line up the arrow on the backing paper and the start mark in the holder, close it up & crank the film to the first frame. Marginally easier.

bdial · Jun 19, 2010

That's about 90%, you may want to add a strap, the body probably won't come with one, and a lens hood would be nice. For the WLF, I'd recommend the "newer" style, which is hinged on the sides.

Generally the backs are supplied with the darkslide, and if it's not included, they should so state. I've not seen any offered by KEH that weren't also described as defective that didn't include the slide. You need one because the back cannot be removed from the camera without it, though with one back, you won't have much reason to take it off.
Newer A12 backs have a darkslide holder glued to the end, and they used to be offered as aftermarket accessories (and still are on ebay). It would be handy, but it's never seemed that important to me. Lot's of people recommend that you leave the slide out unless you're changing the back to make the seal last longer. I put the slide in the bag where the camera lives, or in a pocket if I'm changing backs around.

Have a look at Hasselblad Historical; http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/ there is a lot of information there, including PDF manuals.

photomat- · Jun 19, 2010

Optech straps for your Hasselblad are nice, I use one and it is one of the better $26 I have spent. Even cheaper here: http://www.amazon.com/Op-Tech-Super-Hasselblad-Pentax/dp/B0008167BM

Most people will tell you to get a CF style lens with your kit because parts not being made for the older C style lenses anymore. This was an important consideration for me but I also preferred the ergonomics of the newer style lenses.

Q.G. · Jun 19, 2010

A "12 release" back is a back that has the number "12" printed on the magazine release button. That was a 'late' thing (before, the winged V logo was on that button) which was only seen on A(utomatic) 12 backs, the 12A John mentioned.

What will make a big difference to the price you should pay (a little less for how the thingy works) is what version 80 mm lens is with the camera.
The earliest version (called "C") obviously is older (and thus more likely to need service soon and more often), and handles a little different from the 'middle' version (CF), or the latest (CFi/CFE) versions.
The C version also came in a "chrome" finish first, a black version later. The earlier ones also had a single layer anti reflection coating.
A C lens would be fine, provided it has been serviced lately. Else, a CF would be the better one to get. The latest CFi/CFE would be too expensive (because youngest) without offering much extra over the CF.

hspluta · Jun 19, 2010

One thing you will be needing is some sort of light meter. If you have been shooting digital, you probably have been using the one built into the camera. The 500CM does not have a light meter built into it. You options are for a handheld light meter or a prism with a light meter built in. Each has it's advantages.

Sirius Glass · Jun 19, 2010

hspluta said:
One thing you will be needing is some sort of light meter. If you have been shooting digital, you probably have been using the one built into the camera. The 500CM does not have a light meter built into it. You options are for a handheld light meter or a prism with a light meter built in. Each has it's advantages.

I have a meter in the prism, PME. It does a weighted average over the center area and works very well. I have not had any bad exposures with it nor any operational problems.

Steve

hspluta · Jun 19, 2010

Sirius Glass said:
I have a meter in the prism, PME. It does a weighted average over the center area and works very well. I have not had any bad exposures with it nor any operational problems.

Steve

I have not used a PME series prism, I hear the meter is quite nice on them. I do have the new model Kiev Spot/TTL prism and it actually is very consistent once you calibrate it. But of course it is quite heavy and I prefer using a hand held spot whenever practical.

Best, Harry

yeknom02 · Jun 19, 2010

Thanks for all the help - one question I forgot to ask though... do I need any special equipment for multiple exposures or long exposures? Those are the two techniques I love to experiment with.

By the way, I have a Gossen Luna-Pro F, so I'm good with a light meter. I think I'm going to try to convert everything to incident metering anyway, since I hear it gives more consistent results.

Sirius Glass · Jun 19, 2010

Multiple exposures are made by putting the dark slide after the photograph is taken, the back is removed, the crank is turned which lowers the mirror and cocks the shutter. Then the back is replaced and then the dark slide is removed.

Long exposures should be done on a tripod and with a cable release.

Steve

yeknom02 · Jun 19, 2010

Neat trick for the multiple exposure - it would have taken me a long time to think of that one.

Any idea where to find a cable release for a Hasselblad? KEH doesn't seem to have any, or at least if they do, it's not obvious.

Sirius Glass · Jun 19, 2010

yeknom02 said:
Neat trick for the multiple exposure - it would have taken me a long time to think of that one.

Any idea where to find a cable release for a Hasselblad? KEH doesn't seem to have any, or at least if they do, it's not obvious.

It takes a standard cable release.

Steve

brucemuir · Jun 19, 2010

Sirius Glass said:
It takes a standard cable release.

Steve

While this is certainly true, the Hasselblad can be finicky when it comes to cable releases.
I have at least one standard cable releasse that will work on every mechanical camera I own but the screw in part is tapered and will not mount on my 500 c/m. Also, some releases will not protrude far enough into the release socket to trip the hasselblad shuttter. The end is too short.

A release can also get in the way if you are using the older style quick focus handle for a "C" lens. You will also need a u adapter for the release if you end up using a compendium style Pro Shade.

If you can, try the release first to make sure it fires and you can worry about dealing with the Pro Shade if you decide to get one later.

raoul · Jun 20, 2010

Also suggest a second back - for switching between colour and b&w films.

Probably worth getting a light seal kit off eBay. I replaced all the seals in my backs when I bought them.

John NYC · Jun 20, 2010

Have you used a camera that has a waist level viewfinder before? If so and you like it, the Hasselblad is a great camera (but like any camera it has its compromises). If you haven't, I would recommend picking up a Yashica Mat 124 (or the 124G) for about a hundred bucks and see if you like that style of shooting.

sandermarijn · Jun 20, 2010

With regard to lens choice, it may be a consideration that the C and C T* lenses have a self-timer built into the lens, whereas in the newer versions (CF and on) this feature has been omitted. (There is no self-timer on the body of the camera.)

yeknom02 · Jun 20, 2010

I use a twin lens reflex with a waistlevel finder, so I do have some experience. Overall, it's a bit nicer than a prism finder.

The listing I'm currently looking at has a 80mm C T* lens, though I can get the same thing with a CF T* lens for about an extra $70. I don't know the differences (other than the CF T* is newer and apparently the C T* has a timer). Is the difference worth the extra money?

Sirius Glass · Jun 20, 2010

yeknom02 said:
I use a twin lens reflex with a waistlevel finder, so I do have some experience. Overall, it's a bit nicer than a prism finder.

The listing I'm currently looking at has a 80mm C T* lens, though I can get the same thing with a CF T* lens for about an extra $70. I don't know the differences (other than the CF T* is newer and apparently the C T* has a timer). Is the difference worth the extra money?

$70 is well worth it.

The C lenses are getting harder to repair due to lack of parts.
Furthermore, the CF lenses handle more easily. It has to do with locking and unlocking the aperture and shutter speed rings together.
C lenses use B50 filters; CF lenses use B60 filters; B60 filters are easier to find.
Both have the same optical prescription but the T* coating of the CF reduces flares and that alone is worth it. [Yes, there are a few C lenses with it, but pick at your own postings, you know who you are. Not yeknom02]

Steve

Q.G. · Jun 20, 2010

Sirius Glass said:
Both have the same optical prescription but the T* coating of the CF reduces flares and that alone is worth it. [Yes, there are a few C lenses with it, but pick at your own postings, you know who you are. Not yeknom02]

Is it me? (I should perhaps ask "am i me?", but somehow that doesn't sound right. Though i'm sure it is)

There were more C 80 mm lenses produced with T* than without. Not a lot more, but more.
If you want to be sure an 80 mm C lens has the T* coating, get a black one.

As mentioned, CF ergonomics are better than that of the C lenses. Rubberized focussing ring, instead of the knurled metal thing. Better flash terminal, Better DoF preview. And easier to set shutterspeed and aperture rings.

CF lenses do take bayonet 60 filters, the C lenses take bayonet 50 filters. But contrary to what was suggested, bayonet 50 filters are not harder to find than bayonet 60 filters.

John Koehrer · Jun 20, 2010

Pop the extra $70, Newer lens, better handling, look cooler ;]

jackbaty · Jun 20, 2010

I second the suggestion to pick up an additional back. Of all the cool things Hasselblads offer, being able to switch films mid-roll is one my favorites.

Also, a newer focusing screen or better yet, one of the Acute-Matte D screens, is worth a bit extra. I still can't focus mine worth a toot, but the new screen got me a lot closer.

Sirius Glass · Jun 20, 2010

Having a second back so that one can change from black & white to color and back is one of the joys of a Hasselblad and many other MF cameras.

Steve

yeknom02 · Jun 20, 2010

OK, I probably won't buy a focusing screen right away (unless the outfit doesn't come with one...) but does anyone want to explain the differences of what's available? What does each offer, and are there any screens that wouldn't be compatible?

I definitely want to get a second A12 back, maybe even a A16 at some point for some extra - albeit non-square - frames on a roll of 120.

John R. · Jun 20, 2010

I completely agree about the Acute-Matte D screen being an option you should seriously consider. I find the screens to be of major benefit in my bodies, especially when I use longer lenses. Even with standard and short focal lengths the screen makes life a lot easier. I prefer the #42217 that has the grid and split image. The screen can be inserted 90 degrees off, that allows the split image to be used horizontally and vertically. A nice advantage of the 6x6 format.

Another item I would mention is a basic shade for the standard lens. You can always buy a bellows shade later on if you find the need for one. I have both the basic shade and a bellows shade and I find the cameras are easier and faster to use with the standard shade when hand held. The bellows shade can get in the way sometimes. My preference is the plastic standard shade, not the metal one. The metal ones get banged up easily but the plastic shades don't and they are less expensive. I would also ask KEH for the late version finder. It's the one with the large black plastic tab used for opening.

jackbaty said:
I second the suggestion to pick up an additional back. Of all the cool things Hasselblads offer, being able to switch films mid-roll is one my favorites.

Also, a newer focusing screen or better yet, one of the Acute-Matte D screens, is worth a bit extra. I still can't focus mine worth a toot, but the new screen got me a lot closer.

Q.G. · Jun 21, 2010

yeknom02 said:
OK, I probably won't buy a focusing screen right away (unless the outfit doesn't come with one...) but does anyone want to explain the differences of what's available? What does each offer, and are there any screens that wouldn't be compatible?

All screens work.

There are three 'generations' of focusing screens.

The first was as bright as a 'normal' diffusing focusing screen can be, but not the brigthest. Also had a rather coarse Fresnel lens. Worked great though.
As far as the 'standard', plain screen with reference cross screen goes, this generation is easily recognized by the fact that the reference cross is marked in black paint.

The second was made by Minolta, and is called "Acute Matte". The Acute Matte screens are one stop brighter.
They were made brighter by using optical trickery, that, instead of scattering light in all directions, directed light to a point where your eye is supposed to be.
And due to this trickery, they are in fact a little more difficult to focus.
The standard plain screen with reference cross can be recognized by the fact that the lines of the cross isn't marked in black, but formed by raised lines, embossed in the plastic bottom of the screen.

The third generation consists of modified Acute Matte screens, called "Acute Matte D". Though still using the optical trick to keep them bright, they are a little bit more like conventional screens again, making them (or supposed to make them) a bit easier to focus again.
Acuet Matte D screens can be recognized by a D-shaped cut out in the metal rim of the screen.

All three generations come in different types (with and without a single, or combinations of, focusing aid(s), and/or grid lines).

Buying a Hasselblad Outfit

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