Buyer's Remorse? - Bronica

[Dave in Kansas]

Greetings to everybody from Kansas. This is my first post even though I've been reading this forum for more than a month. It's been very interesting reading. I feel like I'm a member of "old camera anonymous" now...

Well, it all started a few months ago after shooting mostly digital pictures for the past few years, and I began recalling the fond memories of shooting B&W and doing dark room work. I stopped by this local camera store and this fellow had a Mamiya 645. I always wanted one of those so it followed me home. I have every reason to believe it will be a solid performer.

Shortly after that, I came across what I thought was a pretty good deal on a Pentax 645 and an RB 67, both of which I also had dreamed of owning years ago. I figured my buying was over, but several days ago I stopped to visit a fellow I know and he had these Bronica parts (mostly bodies and film backs to get rid of. I remember how I used to want one of those back in the late 70's and early 80's, and after sleeping on the idea, I went back the next day and bought those. One is an SQ-A body and others are the newer SQ-ai. No lense was included, so one is now on its way from KEH.

Now I am asking myself, what did I get myself into? I have no idea if my latest acquistion are all duds or not. Three of the backs are the 220-i, and the only 120 back is the older 120 style. Reading through the forums here about all the people experiencing problems with Bronica backs makes me think I'll be out even more money for additional 120 backs, (the 120-i backs are pretty exepnsive at KEH and with very little B&W 220 film available, 120 backs are necessary) and I'll likely need another finder - perhaps a waist level finder, but even those are expensive at KEH. Suddenly, I find myself sinking a lot of money into this old stuff and I'm wondering, is it worth it? Just how common are probelms with Bronicas? Are they as reliable as other cameras over the long term (20 - 30 years)?

It seemed like a good idea at the time, but now I'm wondering.

Dave

 

[iamzip]

Welcome to the club - it only gets worse.

 

[DWThomas]

I have SQ-A gear. I have had a couple of problems, but then we're talking about components that could be 20 years old. The backs do seem to be the Achilles' heel -- my first one wound film all the way through non-stop, two out of four subsequent backs I received had bad seals. Those are relatively easy to fix, but I returned the one that was supposedly EX+. I've been shooting (lightly) for two years since I got past that problem and have had no back problems. (Er, well, maybe my spine gets a little sore carrying that gear around ... )

Summer 2007 I had a problem where something internal to the body got screwed up and the shutter wouldn't fire via cable release, then eventually not even with the button. The cable release fitting looked a bit skewed, so I suppose it's possible that I banged the equipment into something with a cable release installed. I now remove any release prior to transporting, just in case. After the stuffed shutter release, I got what looks to be a barely used body for about $80 and have put about twenty rolls of film through it -- I'm pretty sure that was cheaper than technician time for a repair.

I think the main problem with these modular cameras is in the acquisition of parts in decent condition to begin with -- and how to test them. It was particularly frustrating with the earliest back problem because I had zero parts to substitute (not to mention having little idea how it was supposed to work when it was working correctly). Since then, and the 2007 "Bronicatastrophe," I now have three working backs, 2 working bodies, 3 lenses (65, 80 and 110 1:1 macro) and 3 viewfinders (WLF, 90º and 45º prisms) so it's way easier to trouble shoot (but with all that stuff on hand everything will probably work for the next 15 years).

I think there are several flavors of the older 120 backs; the oldest may not have some dark slide interlocks, etc., but the ones just prior to the -i stuff have all that. The insert is the only difference between the 120 and 220 backs, unfortunately, inserts seem to be about as common as hen's teeth.

Waist level finders are shockingly expensive, often as much or more than the unmetered prisms, but I guess that attests to their popularity. I use mine about 98% of the time.

So that sums up my currently available data.

DaveT

 

[mikebarger]

Welcome to APUG Dave.

Sorry I can't help you with the Bronica questions, but someone will be along that has a great deal of experience. That's one of the great things about Apug.

What part of eastern Kansas are you in? My wife and I grew up in Wabaunsee County west of Topeka, and lived in Topeka the last 10 years or so before moving to Rolla, MO this summer.

See, Dave got here before I finished typing.

Mike

 

[DWThomas]

Hmm - my aging mind was so focused on "Bronica" I missed the first post indication -- welcome to this happy corner of the cyber-world!

More of what I have and what I've done with the SQ-A is out on PBase for the 2¢ it might be worth.

Another Dave, outside of Philadelphia, PA
(Who just submitted three framed prints from the Bronica to a juried show this AM. I'll be amazed if one gets in, but none will if I don't try!)

 

[Dave in Kansas]

DaveT, Thanks for the info. I hope this proves to be reliable after I get everything working. I just keep thinking about if I had spent the money on another Mamiya body or lense, it might have been a better choice.

Mike, I'm actually in Johnson County, but before you get any wrong ideas, my family comes from what I refer to as the old Johnson County, long before the days of when every new house in the county was painted some variation of beige.

 

[r-brian]

Having had a Bronica SQa for 13 years, I've never had a problem with a back, or for that matter, any other piece of Bronica equipment. And this from using it in the swamps of SW Florida and the desert sands of New Mexico.

I had seller's remorse when I tried to sell the whole outfit because I wasn't using it enough: 2 bodies, WL, AE prism, 3 backs, 40, 50, 80, 150 & 250 S lenses, grip, hood. Ended up with one body, 50mm, 6x4.5 back, AE prism, grip & hood. Decided to buy back into the system. Got a 80 & 150 PS, S-18 ext tube, 6x6 back. Even though the lenses and back were in much more used condition than what I sold, and only half what I sold the other stuff for, they all work perfectly. What I really don't understand is the price for the WL finder; there's no focusing screen or anything in it. Just a couple of pieces of metal with hinges. You can get an AE prism much cheaper than the WL.

What you need to do is figure out what medium format outfit fits your style of shooting and sell the rest. It makes deciding which camera to take a whole lot easier.

 

[Dave in Kansas]

DaveT - I was looking at your pictures earlier today from a link in an earlier thread, and also read your diary of your SQ-A purchase. Maybe that's what I'm in for.

There are times that I really like the square format. I've had a Mamiya C330 TLR for years and really love the little gem. That's part of the reason I thought the SQ-Ai would be a good way to go.

 

[Sanjay Sen]

I have a SQ-A body with three lenses, four 120 backs, a Polaroid back and a ME prism finder - all acquired from eBay. The only problem I've had so far is light leak from a 120 back, which looked pretty beat-up to start with. I've had the system for just about three years now, and it's been a pleasure to shoot with this camera. I love the challenge of the square format.

BTW, welcome to APUG! I hope you enjoy the time you spend here.


Regards,
Sanjay

 

[zenrhino]

Dave, greetings from a former KC resident. My grandparents lived in Turner (and Argentine before the '54 flood) and I lived out in Stillwell back when it had gravel roads. =)

As for your Bronica, I have a GS-1 and it really is my favorite camera. Huge negs and lenses, prisms and backs are CHEEP on KEH.com. Add to it that the lenses are nice and sharp and I'm happy as a clam with mine.

Far as that goes, I was back home and shooting in my old stomping grounds (KCMO over in what is now the crossroads and up on quality hill) over thanksgiving using the Bronica.

 

[Shangheye]

The only problem I have encountered is the leaky backs. Very easy to repair, and I have 3 6x6 and one 6x4.5. The 220 backs are not much use though I have one...not eneough 220 film around and does not suit my shooting style. I whole heartedly recommend the camera as a system to get in to and the quality of the glass is excellent. If you can afford more then go for a Mamiya or a Hassy, but they don't exactly come trouble free either. These are old cameras...vintage now (as most film cameras will be soon), but they will last and they are repairable. I love mine, and would never sell it. K

 

[vdonovan]

Hi Dave, another Bronica user here. I've had similar experiences to everyone here (including Dave Thomas, who's web site has been a big help). Bronica SQ gear takes great pix, can be found cheaply, but it is old so there can be issues. Like Dave, I had a body mysteriously lock up but a replacement body was only $90. I bought a few UGLY grade backs from KEH for about $12 each and replaced the seals myself. I bought an UGLY grade prism finder also for about $12 and it works fine. I don't know why the waist level finders are so expensive.

I happen to shoot a lot of 220, but here's a tip: the shells and inserts are interchangeable. So if you have a few good 220 backs, scout KEH for some UGLY grade 120s backs (they also have 120 inserts from time to time). The UGLY backs might have good inserts but beat-up shells. Put the good 120 insert in one of your good 220 shells and you are ready to shoot. I've done this a couple of times.

p.s. I just noticed that KEH has a 120 insert for $19. This will pop into any of the shells of your 220 backs.
p.p.s It's interesting that right now on KEH you can buy a 120 back for $67, but on the "Back and Magazine Accessories" page, you can buy the insert for $19 and the shell for $11, a complete back for only $30!

 

[glaiben]

Welcome Dave - I'm a KCMO resident. Am not a Bronica user, but if you're looking for more gear, check Craigslist for someone in Hyde Park - he's selling some Bronica eq for what [to me] sounded like a good deal.

...gregg

 

[Dave in Kansas]

Thanks to everybody for the greetings and the suggestion on backs. It looks like there can be some problems, but once they are worked out the cameras may be reliable. I just hope Bronica is as reliable as my other "vintage" cameras.

If this proves to be a good system I will be pleased and it will simplify matters. I'm one of those people who like to shoot a variety of film types - tranparency, regular B&W like Tri-X or Plus-X, and the more unusual film types like Ortho, all on the same outting. In the past that has always meant I carried 3 or 4 cameras, which can be cumbersome. That's one of the things I really like about sheet film. But interchangable backs will eliminate the need to always carry multiple cameras when shooting roll film.

Dave

 

[Joe Grodis]

I really don't think I'll ever have enough "Camera Stuff" Those old MF cameras seem to last decade after decade as long as you treat them well. I have a 1961 Bronica-S & a 1976 Original "Chrome Bronica ETR that perform very very well. My only advice on Bronica is to not mess with the multiple exposure lever. Maybe it's just me but anytime I played with it I always had mysterious shutter no-trigger problems.
Good luck and don't forget to get a Polaroid back for the Bromica !! LOL

 

[schoolhouse]

Bronica blues

I love my Bronica SQB and doing great stuff with it but recently having recurring problems with scratched film on emulsion side - longitudinal right down the middle - sticking film rollers perhaps? Any one else had this problem - very nerve wracking! Just get an extra back or two?? Anyone want to sell one?

 

[DWThomas]

I love my Bronica SQB and doing great stuff with it but recently having recurring problems with scratched film on emulsion side - longitudinal right down the middle - sticking film rollers perhaps? Any one else had this problem - very nerve wracking! Just get an extra back or two?? Anyone want to sell one?

Hmmm - I haven't had it happen, but the film goes over the rollers emulsion side out. I seems more likely the problem would be a burr or dirt on the mask frame, a part of the shell assembly, not the insert.

My 2¢,

DaveT

 

[schoolhouse]

Happy to say my camera repairman in Toronto decreed "not the Bronica" but instead a I'm victim of very shoddy film processing - the "dents" in the film a result of it sliding over to where the edges of the processor rollers literally dug into the film. As for the scratching, he wonders if the shop has cleaned their machine in the last decade! Tried to "shop locally" but shall send to Toronto from now on.

ps - he showed me how to lightly oil the rollers with a brush - "once a year should do it"

pps - let's hope these guys have apprentices - I visited the Hassie site and even they have gone digital - OMG!!!

 

[delphine]

Welcome Dave.
I have a Bronica ETRSi. It is a very reliable camera and very robust. I have never had a problem with any of the backs. I have a metered prism, and also a motor winder, I found these two additions to be very worthwhile as they made my camera a lot more versatile.

Delphine

 

[DWThomas]

Happy to say my camera repairman in Toronto decreed "not the Bronica" but instead a I'm victim of very shoddy film processing - the "dents" in the film a result of it sliding over to where the edges of the processor rollers literally dug into the film. As for the scratching, he wonders if the shop has cleaned their machine in the last decade!

Glad to hear it's sorted out -- and not the Bronica. I sadly fear finding trustworthy processing may be what kills off some films. A year and a half back I shot a roll of 35mm Fuji 64T transparency film photographing some paintings with my A1. I had it processed through a local camera store who used to do it in house and was quite good. Apparently their machine had acted up and they were now sending it somewhere rather than getting the machine fixed. I got back a roll that looked like the machine that did it hadn't been cleaned in a decade. So far (cross all fingers) Provia 120 out of my Bronica has been done through the same shop and come out well. Maybe all the pro work is 120/220 and the 35mm stuff is little used. (Although I believe they all go through the same machine, just different magazines for the film.)

All a bit frustrating.

DaveT (in Pennsylvania)