Butane gas as a substitute for Protectan ?

Smudger · Mar 12, 2017

Following recommendations on this,and other forums , I recently used Butane on some stock Dektol,which was a light brown color. Within a few days the Dektol had oxidised to dark brown.

Am I wasting my time? Any experience with using Butane?

BMbikerider · Mar 12, 2017

It burns pretty well and if in the right air/gas mix can explode quite violently. Not something I would care to have hanging around a darkroom.

Anon Ymous · Mar 12, 2017

BMbikerider said:
It burns pretty well and if in the right air/gas mix can explode quite violently. Not something I would care to have hanging around a darkroom.

Protectant is also a butane - propane mix. Extremely flammable and explosive in the right mix with air. But then, this includes pretty much any spray.

To the op: IME, butane helps quite a bit, but you'll need to be generous and keeping bottles topped up is more important.

AgX · Mar 12, 2017

In the long past Protectan was a CFC, now as said above it is Butane. It must be inert and easily made fluid. And cheap. Not much choices...

Gerald C Koch · Mar 12, 2017

In the past a CFG was used because they typically have a specific gravity much heavier than air. Being heavier than air allowed them to easily displace the air in the bottle. Butane having a Sp Gr of 2.0 may not be heavy enough.

The main source of oxidation with plastic bottles is from oxygen passing thru the plastic not the small amount trapped when the bottle is capped. Then too one has to consider the cost of the butane vs the cost of the developer. All in all it's a waste of money.

There is an old saying that "fishing lures are designed to catch fishermen." This is based on the fact that fish are color blind. They cannot tell that difference between a red plastic worm and a purple one. So too are several darkroom "conveniences." They attract the unwary photo enthusiast.

Old-N-Feeble · Mar 12, 2017

Butane allows for bigger 'blow-ups'.

TattyJJ · Mar 13, 2017

I was looking online for something like this the other day, best i can tell every day "air duster" is near on the same as Protectan and a fraction on the price, can even get it in the pound shop!

Skiver101 · Mar 13, 2017

Could a small balloon be inflated to fill the gap ?
Or would that be as preposterous as it sounds ?

...Just saying

AgX · Mar 13, 2017

A balloon would be better than nothing. But over time the air inside will diffuse until there is a new pressure equilibrium.
Then you still have less air volume on top of the fluid, but under higher pressure!

Kino · Mar 13, 2017

You could try this wine preservative: a combination of argon, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen in a spray can.

https://www.directshoppingcenter.co..._source=Base&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=main

Gerald C Koch · Mar 13, 2017

Kino said:
You could try this wine preservative: a combination of argon, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen in a spray can.

https://www.directshoppingcenter.co..._source=Base&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=main

NO No carbon dioxide which would change the pH of the developer.

The best solution is to mix only enough developer to meet your needs within the recommended storage life. Then store the developer in a glass or PET bottle.

Old-N-Feeble · Mar 13, 2017

I've always used dark amber glass bottles with glass marbles to displace all air... the last marbled is very carefully dropped in so the fluid is rounded at the top and the cap screws down to displace everything so there is never even a bubble in the bottle. The only trouble I've had with this method is when the cap seals are not made of waterproof material.

Someonenameddavid · Mar 13, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
In the past a CFG was used because they typically have a specific gravity much heavier than air. Being heavier than air allowed them to easily displace the air in the bottle. Butane having a Sp Gr of 2.0 may not be heavy enough.

The main source of oxidation with plastic bottles is from oxygen passing thru the plastic not the small amount trapped when the bottle is capped. Then too one has to consider the cost of the butane vs the cost of the developer. All in all it's a waste of money.

There is an old saying that "fishing lures are designed to catch fishermen." This is based on the fact that fish are color blind. They cannot tell that difference between a red plastic worm and a purple one. So too are several darkroom "conveniences." They attract the unwary photo enthusiast.

And there you have the reason that chlorofluorocarbons don't destroy the ozone layer... they are heavier than air: Nitrogen would be a good choice. You could generate nitrogen fairly cheaply by inflating a number of balloons with air, and allowing them to go soft over time: oxygen will have diffused out first, leaving a higher concentration of N2

hoffy · Mar 13, 2017

BMbikerider said:
It burns pretty well and if in the right air/gas mix can explode quite violently. Not something I would care to have hanging around a darkroom.

Do you have a gas powered cook top in your kitchen?

Do you have a gas powered BBQ on your patio?

Is having a wee puff of gas sitting in the top of your sealed chem bottles in the darkroom any worse?

Kino · Mar 13, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
NO No carbon dioxide which would change the pH of the developer.

Good to know! Thanks!

AgX · Mar 14, 2017

Someonenameddavid said:
And there you have the reason that chlorofluorocarbons don't destroy the ozone layer... they are heavier than air.

No, by time gases diffuse into eachother.

Otherwise we could not extract Helium from our air, it all would be in the Stratosphere...
And we here down on earth would walk through pure Oxygen...

Skiver101 · Mar 14, 2017

''And we here down on earth would walk through pure Oxygen...''

NO FLASH PHOTOGRAPHY PLEASE !!

Harry Stevens · Mar 14, 2017

What about if your developer was very warm when top applied and then when it cools down wouldn't there be a vacuum or at leasrt less air in the bottle....
For me it's bottles and marbles.

Once remember watching a program about how a flour factory went skywards when a spark ignited the place,self raising or not.

AgX · Mar 14, 2017

Harry Stevens said:
What about if your developer was very warm when top applied and then when it cools down wouldn't there be a vacuum or at leasrt less air in the bottle....

Why so complicated? Fill it to the top cold instead.

But the issue of this thread likely is the protection of solutions that are in use and thus are reduced in volume, but still in the same bottle.

Harry Stevens · Mar 14, 2017

AgX said:
But the issue of this thread likely is the protection of solutions that are in use and thus are reduced in volume, but still in the same bottle.

Which my reply was aimed at ...........

Butane gas as a substitute for Protectan ?

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