Burke & James refurbishing question

[aeronaut63]

Greetings,

New member, long time but not overly active photographer.

For a summer project, I'm restoring a Burke & James 4x5. It has this really nice maple wood finish, covered by rather bland industrial gray paint (with hints of olive green and some fading and dirt). It's a tailboard camera, with decent room for all the movements except rear tilt and rear drop (rear swing, shift, and rear rise are available), and it can extend to about 17 inches, so it probably could take 400mm lens with minimal movement and not focusing too close. Most of the wood and metal hardware are in good shape, and the crimson bellows are in outstanding condition. My plan is to strip off the paint, lightly stain the exposed wood and then seal it, clean up the metal fittings (0000 grade steel wool, for the most part), and then put it all back together.

I've disassembled the camera, and have three main wood pieces (base, tailboard, and front standard) all separated, metal removed, and ready to strip. But the box for the rear frame is giving me some trouble. The handle appears to be permanently attached, so I'll work around that. But the bellows are also glued in, which will make it very difficult to get to the inside parts of the rear holder.

Does anyone have any experience getting the bellows out, or any suggestions as to where to pry/separate things? The rear frame is a simple square box, and appears to have the bellows base secured into it. I have pictures (too many), and can reply with the relevant ones (or take new ones).

I'm aware of Kevin Bourque's old but wonderful restoration of an 8x10 B&J, which you can look at here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/burke-james/restore8x10.html. He mentions getting the bellows out as an important step; his were totally trashed and he bought a new set, but mine are in such good shape (including virtually no sag) that I want to make sure to preserve them.

Once I finish the whole thing, I'll write up a post about how it went, with images. Looking forward to turning this functional but ugly camera into a beautiful and slightly more functional 4x5.

Any advice appreciated.

Regards,
Martin

 

[shutterfinger]

The paint is lead based, protect yourself and dispose of the dust/residue accordingly. I suggest paint remover.
Get some Liftoff Tape, Label, and Adhesive remover http://www.homedepot.com/p/Motsenbockers-22-oz-Tape-Label-and-Adhesive-Remover-407-01/100029845 , coat the perimeter of the bellows at the standard and let sit for a day or two keeping moist with the Liftoff. Other adhesive removers leave a residue that is difficult to remove or will damage the bellows. The last pleat or two may become separated but that's easy to fix. When I did a B&J Commercial view the bellows did not come completely loose but the glue softened enough that they could be carefully pried off without damage to the bellows or the standard.
This article http://www.largeformatphotography.info/burke-james/restore8x10.html should help. Don't be surprised to find saw marks in the wood that can't be felt, will undersize the piece if sanded out, and will look bad if finished in clear varnish/lacquer or stain.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Welcome to APUG

Listen to shutterfinger, I just sent one of my prized 4"x5" cameras for him to repair when I could not make the repair properly.

 

[shutterfinger]

covered by rather bland industrial gray paint (with hints of olive green and some fading and dirt).

Its Battleship Gray to honor the Navy's accomplishments in the Pacific during WWII.

 

[aeronaut63]

Thanks, shutterfinger. I know about the paint hazard, I'm starting with a mild stripper (no fumes, leave on for a couple of hours,) then a cleaning, a second coat of stripper (probably needed), and finally, hand sanding outside with respirator and goggles on. Also, in shutterfinger's defense, I posted the link to Kevin Bourque's site by editing the original post, and when I finished the edit, his reply was there. That site was primarily what inspired me to try this project.

I'll try the Motsenbacher's to get the bellows off the rear standard. On the front standard it attaches to a plastic frame that I'm not going to mess with, so no point in removing it there. Any advice on how to fix the bellows separation that might occur with the Motsenbacher's? I'm handy enough with tools, but I don't know the special sauces to work these tricks for LF cameras. I'm prepared to use wood putty to fill in any saw marks - trick there is to stain the wood first, then match the putty to it with the addition of the same stain before applying the putty. Or, if you know of a better method, I'm all ears.

Finally, my error, the camera does have rear tilt. Just take the bottom pair of thumbwheel screws out, tilt to the angle you want, and tighten the top pair. Both pairs in insure no tilt. And I'm happy to honor the navy, I just will go back a century, and do it with nicely stained wood.

Regards,
Martin

 

[shutterfinger]

Camera bellows are the outer cover be it leather or vinyl pleat stays which are card stock to single layer cardboard paper and the inner lining that is cloth of some type. The outer layer is coated with a thin coat of contact cement or an aerosol adhesive such as 3M's Super 77 or similar the pleat stays/stiffeners laid out in a pattern allowing for the folds, a second coat of adhesive and the cloth inner liner. The inner and outer layers and the pleat stiffeners may separate but its easy to keep the pieces and glue them back together with contact cement. I use DAP Nonflammable contact cement http://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-Weldwood-32-fl-oz-Nonflammable-Contact-Cement-25332/100174435 Apply to one surface, position parts and press together, sets in 5 to 15 minutes and cures in an hour or two. Pleat stay will need a coat on each side as it contacts 2 different surfaces. The advantage to this contact cement over solvent types is that any excess that presses out can be rubbed off with your fingers once set, the drawback is its smallest size is a quart.

Wood fillers are garbage. Its next to impossible to get it to take stain and look good. Once you get to the base wood clean the work area, spread out a catch tarp or newspaper or similar then do the final sand. Collect the sand dust, mix with wood glue to form a paste and fill any gaps with it. Insufficient glue and it may not stick, too much glue and it will spread too thinly. I think the mixture is around 60% - 70% sand dust to 40% - 30% glue. its been a few years since I did this. I have a pint of Mahogany sand dust from a RB Series B I did several years ago. The most difficult part is not to over sand. The RB had some factory gaps that were covered by the exterior leather that had disintegrated. I finished it in satin black stain.

 

[Rick A]

I stripped a 5x7 B&J last year. The wood is not always maple, and the paint does not always strip clean. I wished mine would have been able to be natural finish, but reality struck and I ended up painting mine to a flat black finish. The previous owner had sprayed a couple of layers of gray on everything, including the leatherette on the back, which I did manage to remove. Also, paint on all the hardware, so I buffed everything as clean as possible. The leather strap was rotted, so that was removed and replaced using a leather strap mounted via "Chicago screws". The original clasp fittings were reusable, but I didn't want to use them. I cut the bellows free and reattached with contact cement after refinishing. On retrospect, I probably should have used velcro to reattach. Getting the front standard apart was the toughest part, but came out okay. Second photo appears gray, bad lighting, it's flat black.

 

[KenS]

Hi again...

"Does anyone have any experience getting the bellows out, or any suggestions as to where to pry/separate things? The rear frame is a simple square box, and appears to have the bellows base secured into it. I have pictures (too many), and can reply with the relevant ones (or take new ones).

OOPS!!!
I forgot to mention that I did not remove the bellows.... I was not sure I could get them back as securely as they were in the original. I masked my bellows as CAREFULLY as possible using some black plastic 'electrician's tape.

Ken

 

[shutterfinger]

Post #2.

 

[Kawaiithulhu]

Battleship Gray to honor the Navy's accomplishments in the Pacific during WWII

There is more than one brand and camera line that went this light gray color, do you think that this is the reason for all of those?
I've never before heard a good explanation why even pretty wood models would go to gray paint.

 

[shutterfinger]

There is more than one brand and camera line that went this light gray color, do you think that this is the reason for all of those?

From 1946 to 1956 yes after that unknown although Graflex continued with the battleship gray coupled with black on the Super graphic introduced in 1958.

 

[aeronaut63]

Greetings,

Thanks much to all for the help so far. Slow but steady progress (better than fast but ruining something).

More info. Stripped the paint off the base - it's not maple, it's a medium shade hardwood, bit of a reddish orange cast (certainly not something sexy like mahogany, but I can't recognize it, maybe ash or hickory), so I'm going to return the lighter maple stain I bought for it and get something darker (also see below).

Issues - the stripper i used (fume safe, eco friendly, takes 2-3 hours to get the paint off, but does get it all, purchased at Home Depot, green label quart container) also seems to react with the wood. The flat bottom of the base came out pretty well, but the top side of the base (near bellows) had some little saw marks. When the first strip layer dried, the top base had little gray spots in the saw marks, which I assumed were paint left there after the gentle scraping. So I applied a second thin coat, and the gray marks got worse after that. I also noticed that the board ends, and the recessed hole where the carriage bolt sits, had the same gray staining of the wood. I could try to post pictures, but have had trouble in the past with the size limits here - any insider secrets on that?

I'm thinking about trying some tricks to get those out. Steaming might help, putting a damp paper towel on the surface, and then a hot iron, to inject steam into the wood cells, raise the grains and the little divots, and make whatever is doing the staining more mobile so that maybe some leeches out into the paper towel. Any other suggestions? And if all this fails, the darker stain may hide some of these sins.

Also, the wood, after all this treatment, and spending 70 years or so cocooned in paint, appears pretty dry. Should I do some sort of thin penetrating oil to treat the wood, and should I do that before or after staining it? Or does the stain take care of that?

Leaning towards a shellac topcoat, but not certain yet.

Local Home Depot didn't stock the Mosserbocher's adhesive remover, but Amazon has it, at a fair price, so I ordered a bottle from them, along with some brushes and other bits.

Regards,
Martin

 

[shutterfinger]

Rosewood was a commonly used in cameras, think lightweight, dimensionaly stable.

 

[Rick A]

Maple, beech, and birch, in combination with no rhyme or reason other than stability and readily available. At least that's what mine is made from.

 

[aeronaut63]

All,

Project going great so far. Stripping was pretty easy, aside from the first surface I did having some gray spots on it. Sanding went really well, flats look incredible.

Below I'm posting images of the base piece (top, bottom, smooth side that is on the front of the camera). Any ideas what the wood is?

I took these pictures on the window ledge in natural sunlight (outside is to the right as posted). The color is a very nice light yellow with deeper colored brown grain with hints of red. The gray regions on the second image are under the body hinge, and I didn't want to sand down there and mess with the dimensions. Those gray spots were present on the flat on that face too, but sanded out nicely, with a little effort and the random orbit sander. Finish is almost glassy smooth, and this is before staining and lacquering. The dark hole on the first image holds the carriage bolt that holds the front standard in place, and all the dark parts will be completely covered by the bolt. That is the bottom of the camera. For reference, this is a tailboard camera with a single hinge, front standard pivots and shifts, but doesn't move forward/backward - focusing is done by moving the rear standard.

And this is what these pieces looked like before stripping. Photo of whole camera before is on my DSLR, not my phone, so I'll post that when the project is done.

Any info on the wood appreciated, and thanks all for the help so far.

Regards,
Martin

 

[rosshj]

Hi Martin. Did you finish this project? I would love to see the results. I’m debating picking up a B&J 8x10 and was thinking about restoring it as well.

 

[Ray Morgenweck]

Tough to tell on the wood but grain and color looks like cherry. PS most people forget sharp cut glass is used as a scraper to work wood to a good surface

 

[Fritzthecat]

That base looks to be birch, same as mine. Remember, these cameras were cheaply made. If you replace any parts, use birch, maple, or if you want red use alder (poor mans cherry).