Bulk roll frame numbers and edge marking

ericdan · Aug 27, 2018

I’m thinking of trying to bulk load my Tri-X since Kodak dropper the price to 79.90. I do use frame numbers on the edge markings in my darkroom notes to identify pictures.
How is edge marking handled on bulk rolls? Does it just in crease until the roll is finished? Does it reset after some interval?

Thanks.

Carriage · Aug 27, 2018

I think for most the numbering resets around 40, at least that's what my HP5+ did. It means your rolls wont start at one but you should never have duplicate frame numbers. My Arista 200 doesn't have markings at all and I don't believe actual Foma stuff does either. From various internet anecdotes Foma made stuff is the weird one. If you want a specific answer about TriX, I can't help as I've never shot it in bulk.

faberryman · Aug 27, 2018

Delta 400 goes from 1-40. You then have the anomalous situation that the first numbers on a roll are sometimes 38, 39, 40, 1, 2.

ericdan · Aug 27, 2018

Interesting, but as long as i have numbering and don’t get duplicates it’ll work for me.
Also, found this one online. Seems to go beyond 40 in this case.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alex_churchill_gray/6822152355/in/photostream

ic-racer · Aug 28, 2018

Last number on Tri-x is "44-A" after which it goes to "01"

Pentode · Aug 28, 2018

Carriage said:
I don't believe actual Foma stuff does either.

That’s correct; No frame numbers with Foma.

I can’t remember what you get with Orwo or Efke rolls but I seem to remember them not having frame numbers either. Don’t quote me on that, though; my memory is pretty volatile.

darkroommike · Aug 28, 2018

An illustration in one of Vestal's books shows him putting roll and frame numbers on his film strips with India ink and a "crow quill" pen (a small metal point).

elcheeco · Aug 28, 2018

Neither Orwo UN54 nor N74+ have frame numbers, because they are manufactured for motion picture cameras. They have minimal edge marking (some small barcodes and a serial number for the film stock that repeats periodically).

Ilford bulk films not only have frame numbers, but also are marked SAFETY FILM, which has always been charming to me.

ericdan · Aug 28, 2018

Always wondered why Ilford has this barcode like marking on my the bottom edge. Thought that is only for color negatives that get machine processed.

AgX · Aug 28, 2018

elcheeco said:
Neither Orwo UN54 nor N74+ have frame numbers, because they are manufactured for motion picture cameras. They have minimal edge marking (some small barcodes and a serial number for the film stock that repeats periodically).

Orwo (Filmotec) have the most modern signing machine there is. They could do any customized signing one wishes.

ericdan · Aug 28, 2018

How do you know that and what's different between their's and older machines?

ericdan · Aug 28, 2018

How do you deal with the last frame on bulk loaded rolls? The end gets exposed to light as well as the front
Load 37 frames and stop at 36?

Pentode · Aug 28, 2018

ericdan said:
How do you deal with the last frame on bulk loaded rolls? The end gets exposed to light as well as the front
Load 37 frames and stop at 36?

That's how I should do it, but I usually end up loading 36 and stopping at 34 for safety's sake. It actually works out okay for me because I can use the smaller negative pages for storage and some of my cassettes get a little tight if I try to load more than 36 frames in them.

faberryman · Aug 28, 2018

ericdan said:
How do you deal with the last frame on bulk loaded rolls? The end gets exposed to light as well as the front
Load 37 frames and stop at 36?

Never had a problem with the last frame that I can remember.

Bill Burk · Aug 28, 2018

Keep going until you hit the end... then figure that last shot is no good.

ericdan · Aug 28, 2018

dunno if I wanna take that bet with every roll

Carriage · Aug 28, 2018

It'll depend exactly on how your loader works and the instructions usually give a guide. For my Watson I do 4 for the leader and another 2 for the other end. Then I shoot 1-36 as indicated. You'll need to get a bit of a feel for it as your camera or loader might be different. Take note of what you're doing and what it looks like after you develop it.

rpavich · Aug 29, 2018

Bill Burk said:
Keep going until you hit the end... then figure that last shot is no good.

That's how I do it. I load 32 and then assume that two are toast.

AgX · Aug 29, 2018

ericdan said:
How do you know that and what's different between their's and older machines?

I got insider knowledge. The benefit of that machine is that any text/graphic can be produced in no time.

gorbas · Aug 29, 2018

Old ORWO bulk film (before 1989) had all markings, EFKE too. ORWO in 70s had very cool bulk rolls, 3x36 frames with pre cut leader and tongue. The most conveniant bulk roll ever.
When loading bulk roll I always attach end of the film to spindle in dark so there is not any waisted frames.

DWThomas · Aug 29, 2018

This thread got me curious -- in recent years I have shot a few rolls spooled off a hundred foot roll of Kodak Panatomic-X (expiration date December 1988). I just took a look at some filed negatives and I see no frame numbers. I did in fact write some numbers in the rebates for the start of each cut strip so I could obsessively keep them in order!

AgX · Aug 29, 2018

gorbas said:
Old ORWO bulk film (before 1989) had all markings, EFKE too. ORWO in 70s had very cool bulk rolls, 3x36 frames with pre cut leader and tongue. The most conveniant bulk roll ever.

Such pre-converted bulk rolls were common here in East and West long ago. Practically a chain of type 135 strips that only had to be cut apart.

Arctic amateur · Aug 30, 2018

Pentode said:
That’s correct; No frame numbers with Foma.

I can’t remember what you get with Orwo or Efke rolls but I seem to remember them not having frame numbers either. Don’t quote me on that, though; my memory is pretty volatile.

My now-ancient EFKE KB100 bulk roll has half-frame edge markings. I can't remember if it resets at 72 or 80.

ericdan said:
How do you deal with the last frame on bulk loaded rolls? The end gets exposed to light as well as the front
Load 37 frames and stop at 36?

I don't have a bulk loader, I did it by hand in darkness, so no issue there. I couldn't get exactly 36-frame rolls, but I would get it roughly right by measuring a scrap roll against my outstretched arms before I got to work.

The last time I did this, I didn't have access to an actual darkroom, so I did it in my changing bag. It worked OK except I could no longer simply stretch out my arms and know how much film to cut off the roll, so I got it wrong and loaded a couple of cassettes with 45-frame film. No problems until I was loading it into my development tank and realized it wouldn't fit on my Paterson reel, so I had to cut off a piece of each roll to stick on another reel, and hope I didn't lose a good shot.

Agulliver · Aug 30, 2018

How you deal with the head and tail will depend on whether you load in the dark, and on the type of bulk loader you have.

There are two basic types, the "teardrop" Watson, Computrol and clones. They use a felt free light trap and tend to waste 2/3 frames at the head and 2 at the toot even if you're careful. I usually wind 38 and expect to get 35 or 36.

The square box "Lloyds" type of bulk loader uses a felt light trap and you can get away with just one frame at each end being lost. Clearly the head doesn't matter as you're going to lose that loading into your camera anyway.

Some people feel that the Watson type is less likely to scratch film. I have both types and haven't had any issues with either but I do find the felt "Lloyds" type is easier to use. Also the Watson 100 is much easier than the older Watson 66.

Pentode · Aug 30, 2018

I also use both types and I also find the “Lloyds” type a little easier to use. The only thing I don’t like about it is that it relies not on a frame counter but on the number of times you turn the crank. This leads to different lengths of film, depending upon the thickness of the base. It tends to make an inexact science that much less exact. I always have to remember to add a little bit to Estar-based stock.

Bulk roll frame numbers and edge marking

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency