Bulk loading for beginner

CMoore · Nov 13, 2017

I bought an enlarger a few years ago. The gal included just about everything Thing/Accessory she had. So inherited these two Watson Loaders.
My two questions.....
1. Do you guys still bilk load.? Seems like Ilford HP5 is a decent savings.?

2. Are these Watson a decent unit for a beginner to learn with...is there something "better".?
I watched a few Youtube videos about bulk loading when i got this stuff, but i never used them. I will definitely take another look and see what is available for Bulk Loading Tutorials.
Thank You

MattKing · Nov 13, 2017

1. Yes
2. Yes
Is there anything better? The Lloyds type offers a shorter "in light" film path, and therefore wastes slightly less film in the leader and the trailer than the Watson types, but depends on a felt light trap that can require care.
I have both types, and use both.
There are some tips that are handy to know when you bulk load.
The biggest advantages (in my mind) of bulk loading are that it permits me to load rolls that are the length I prefer, at the time I need them.
I also appreciate how little space it takes to store one hundred feet of film, both in a loader, and in a storage space before it goes into the loader.

Mick Fagan · Nov 13, 2017

Yes to one and yes to two. Are there better, I think so.

As Matt suggests there are bulk loaders that don't use a felt light trap, that, over time, may pick up dust and other particles that may scratch film.

I myself have 4 bulk loaders, all are either the Kaiser from Germany or in the case of of one of mine, a Japanese copy of the Kaiser.

The Kaiser unit opens a trap door after you have closed the outer lid over your film cassette. The trap door opens when you insert the winder handle. I have been using mine Kaiser (and others) for close to 40 years now. Before that I used one similar to the Watson unit you have.

They are an excellent way of conducting your hobby and the possibility of loading say 12 frames for a test shoot and development of the film, is certainly one of the features I have exercised over the past 5 decades.

For every 30 metres you will get 18 full 36 exposure rolls and approximately 1 short roll of somewhere between 10 frames up to about 19 frames; dependent mostly on how long your leader is for your particular camera.

By that I mean my Nikon F3 camera body is a very wide body, it requires almost another full frame length of film to get across the camera back and be caught by the winding mechanism. Whereas an Olympus OM camera body, which are very small in all ways compared to the Nikon F3 body, need the shortest wastage of film to go from one side of the camera body to the winding mechanism. One friend who runs an Olympus OM1 body is able to get 19 rolls of 36 frames by being careful out of a standard 30M roll of film, something I can never do with my wide body camera.

Mick.

CMoore · Nov 14, 2017

Thanks for the info guys.....
I forgot to mention, i bought some cassettes .....
http://www.ultrafineonline.com/10re35cameca.html

The body and ends are metal and the spool is plastic Not sure how long they will last, or how light-tight they are or will stay...but i guess i could be careful (eventually) when loading them into and out of a camera.
That Kaiser unit looks like a very nice piece of gear.
Thanks Again

revdoc · Nov 14, 2017

The Watson's pretty good. You have to remember to open the light trap before you start to crank the film into the cassette; if you forget to do that, the film will load but it will get scratched. Mine also has a dicky frame counter that often skips frames unless I give it a light push.

lantau · Nov 14, 2017

I've got a Watson style as new old stock (or is it old new). If you want to minimise the length of exposed film at the end of the roll, and I really do, then any daylight loader will require handling that end in a dark room. The watson is more conventient there than my other loader.

Close the gate and open the flap. Cut the film about 1-1.5cm from the gate. If you just rolled a film then then you created a leader in the right length above the cut and the very short piece going into the closed gate will be the tail end at the spool. That is short enough to not give you a damaged final frame, which can be very annoying.

Prepare you next cassette to be loaded. Have film stick out of the felt opeing. 0.5 -0.75cm is enough. Attach a short strip (~75% of the 35mm film width) of adhesive tape (I like magic tape for this) to the filmend at the gate in an overlapping fashion. Then attach the film roll to that. Finally another piece of tape on the emulsion side so both sides are used to hold it all together.

Now switch of the light and in total darkness open the film gate. Put the cassette into its position, close the loader and switch on the light again. Spool as many frames as you require, close the gate, open the loader and cut like above.

Thanks to the gate which holds the film and gives a sharp edge where the exposure ends, I find this loader to be easier to work with then others.

Neal · Nov 14, 2017

Dear CMoore,

First, have no fear. It's not very hard. Next, consider simply working inside a changing bag. I have always worked entirely inside a changing bag and with a little care I've had zero issues. A big tent is nice, but I started with just a regular no-name bag purchased at a local camera store years ago.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

AgX · Nov 14, 2017

You do not need a loader.
Unless you want less than max. filling of the cassette resp. a fixed number of less frames.

All you need is a dark room, a glass or porcelain bowl, a pair of scissors and tape. And to make yourself clear in advance how the film is to be orientated towards the reel.

I started bulk loading from my 4th film or so on. And I had no manual or video back then, but just did it this way. I did not even know there were loaders.

Some cameras will not expose more than 36 frames. Than max. loading would mean wasting of film. In such case one has to take a waste film and find out how that feels on the reel or to wind off again the respective lenght from maximum loading.

A variation of the above method is to make a scale (metal profile with cuts, screws or rivets as marks) and measure the wanted length this way.

AgX · Nov 14, 2017

Loaders:

There is at least one model that by design fault does not open the light seal properly, but rather produces a V-slit. Checking the working of that slit should be done with any new loader.

Gerald C Koch · Nov 14, 2017

How many frames will fit in a cassette depends on the film thickness. Eastman Double-X 5222 is a bit thicker than other B&W films and it is near impossible to get 36 frames on a spool without binding.

Another point to consider is that some films must be bulk loaded as they are not available on cassettes.

Sirius Glass · Nov 14, 2017

Decades ago I shoot bulk Ektachrome film, but stopped because it was not cost effective for me. I do not think that it is any better now.

CMoore · Nov 14, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
Decades ago I shoot bulk Ektachrome film, but stopped because it was not cost effective for me. I do not think that it is any better now.

I do Hear/Read this a lot...and, at this point, i really do not know what the monetary savings might be. I am not sure what the tipping point (in savings) would be for me.
What frequently DOES get mentioned is the unique ability to load a certain number of frames on a roll.

rrusso · Nov 14, 2017

Yeah, using the B&H prices, HP5 in bulk cuts the cost by approx. 1/3. Interestingly, the savings for Delta 100 is nearly 1/2.

I have two Alden 74's, which are almost identical to the Watson, except the locking lever is metal on the Alden. I believe the Aldens are made of Bakelite. I got them both as auctions, and very cheap (~10 bucks each). I've thought about changing to the Kaiser style loaders, but have decided it's not worth stressing over the few frames gained by doing so, and I believe they tend to be pricier even used. Of course, if I ran across a deal I'd buy one.

The cassettes I use are just the cheap plastic ones (I believe they're Kalt brand), they're easy to use and work great, but I'd like to start replacing them with nicer metal ones. I clicked your link, but it looks like you cleaned them out of stock!

Gerald C Koch · Nov 20, 2017

I have had the best success using metal cassettes. They are sturdier and there is less chance of the caps coming off. Remember to periodically clean the felt. A single bit of grit can ruin an entire roll. Interstitial brushes made for between the teeth are good for this purpose. The particular brand that I use are Butler GUM.

AgX · Nov 20, 2017

Caps from plastic cassettes twisting off can be prevented by a narrow strip of adhesive tape attached to that protruding part of them.

rpavich · Nov 20, 2017

AgX said:
Caps from plastic cassettes twisting off can be prevented by a narrow strip of adhesive tape attached to that protruding part of them.

I do this just to make sure sometimes but I've never had that happen to me. I have had metal caps pop off though so I guess I'm the opposite of folks here.

I find metal caps to sometimes be hard to put on and hard to get off and pop when you don't want them to whereas plastic is easy-peasy.

I bulk load a LOT and your loaders look fine. There are advantages and disadvantages to everything but just use what you have and later on if you find they aren't doing the job...move on. Lloyds loaders can be had cheaply if you keep an eye out. I bought the last two I have for 3.00 and 4.00 respectively and they both work and are light tight.

removed account4 · Nov 20, 2017

just make sure you tape the end well onto the spool
it is a real drag when you wind it into the camera and can't
remove the film unless yougo someplace dark, and then
you need to wind it back into the cassette.
have fun !

AgX · Nov 20, 2017

Yes, one may check his attaching technique at light beforehand. One is temped to lead the strip around the spool to the emulsion side, but in worst case that might spoil the exposure at the last frame.

Sirius Glass · Nov 20, 2017

jnanian said:
just make sure you tape the end well onto the spool
it is a real drag when you wind it into the camera and can't
remove the film unless yougo someplace dark, and then
you need to wind it back into the cassette.
have fun !

Wrap the tape from one side of the film, around the spool, and fasten to the other side of the film.

rpavich · Nov 21, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
Wrap the tape from one side of the film, around the spool, and fasten to the other side of the film.

This is what I do. It only has to touch the film for a tiny bit and grabbing on both sides is more secure than a one-sided grip. That last bit of film doesn't get exposed anyway.

Gerald C Koch · Nov 21, 2017

I think it is better not to tape the sides of the cassette since the tape could get caught in the film wind mechanism. Better to avoid plastic and cheap metal cassettes entirely. Trying to save a few pennies could result in a costly camera repair.

trendland · Nov 21, 2017

Mick Fagan said:
Yes to one and yes to two. Are there better, I think so.

As Matt suggests there are bulk loaders that don't use a felt light trap, that, over time, may pick up dust and other particles that may scratch film.

I myself have 4 bulk loaders, all are either the Kaiser from Germany or in the case of of one of mine, a Japanese copy of the Kaiser.

The Kaiser unit opens a trap door after you have closed the outer lid over your film cassette. The trap door opens when you insert the winder handle. I have been using mine Kaiser (and others) for close to 40 years now. Before that I used one similar to the Watson unit you have.

They are an excellent way of conducting your hobby and the possibility of loading say 12 frames for a test shoot and development of the film, is certainly one of the features I have exercised over the past 5 decades.

For every 30 metres you will get 18 full 36 exposure rolls and approximately 1 short roll of somewhere between 10 frames up to about 19 frames; dependent mostly on how long your leader is for your particular camera.

By that I mean my Nikon F3 camera body is a very wide body, it requires almost another full frame length of film to get across the camera back and be caught by the winding mechanism. Whereas an Olympus OM camera body, which are very small in all ways compared to the Nikon F3 body, need the shortest wastage of film to go from one side of the camera body to the winding mechanism. One friend who runs an Olympus OM1 body is able to get 19 rolls of 36 frames by being careful out of a standard 30M roll of film, something I can never do with my wide body camera.

Mick.

You are right - because I own the same ...... !
But we will not forgetting to say : It is to 30,5 meter bulk film - I remember it may be there are altogether 45m possible - perhaps I should have a short look to mine ?

with regards

darkroommike · Nov 21, 2017

The Watson 100 is very good, earlier models with the removable door are a pain to use, almost requiring three hands to manipulate. I like the design. Most of the current cartridges are junk, try to find some older Kodak Snap Caps, and at one time a lot of house brand color film was made by Konica and Agfa and the cartridges are reloadable, I just bout a couple dozen for $0.25 each. And of course the non plus versions of Ilford film including XP-1 came in cartridges you could reload.

It can be a bit of a bother but some films only come in long rolls, other times, I might only want a few frames to test a camera.

Most microfilm is unperforated, a perfect application for the Lloyd's loader since it has no counter sprocket in the loader.

Sadly Kodak bulk film prices are currently "upside down". It costs more to bulk load than to buy factory loads.

Sirius Glass · Nov 21, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
Wrap the tape from one side of the film, around the spool, and fasten to the other side of the film.

Gerald C Koch said:
I think it is better not to tape the ends since the tape could get caught in the film wind mechanism. Better to avoid plastic and cheap metal cassettes entirely. Trying to save a few pennies could result in a costly camera repair.

Never had a problem with this.
Never heard of anyone having this problem when I worked in camera stores.
Never heard of anyone having this problem on the internet.
Film manufactures use tape and tape both sides of the film.

Gerald C Koch · Nov 21, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
Never had a problem with this.

Never heard of anyone having this problem when I worked in camera stores.

Never heard of anyone having this problem on the internet.

Film manufactures use tape and tape both sides of the film.

Sorry I wasn't clear. What I meant was not to put tape on the ends of the cassette not to fix the end of the film to the spool. Tape on the OUTSIDE of the cassette can get caught in the gears. By the way masking tape is designed to have no much stick. It is for masking and not sealing. Freezer tape or packaging tape is better.

Bulk loading for beginner

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