Bulk Film Questions

FujiLove · Nov 10, 2015

frobozz said:
In the UK these are the contact details:

Hemel Hempstead
Entertainment Imaging
Kodak Ltd.
Hemel One
Boundary Way
Hemel Hempstead HP2 7YU
Phone:+44 (0)870 8501904
Fax:+44 (0)870 8502418
EI-Order@Kodak.com

Someone in the UK just call them and try to order that part number and report back how it went.

Okay, I spoke to Kodak this morning and got the price of Double X:

400' rolls are £257.23 which works out at £64.31 per 100' or roughly £3.57 per roll. The minimum order value is £400, otherwise there is a £40 surcharge. They will post out or you can collect from the office in Hemel. The lead time is a maximum of 7 days.

1000' rolls are £642 (almost exactly the same per foot). All these prices include tax.

In comparison, at MacoDirect bulk rolls of HP5 are £51.11 and Foma Pan 200 is £31.81 per 100'. Quite a difference.

Xmas · Nov 10, 2015

I get mine from

http://www.processuk.net/index.aspx?pageid=740598&chainID=79100&txtQuickSearch=Fomapan+400

Fomapan 400 is 40.87 GBP as I walk past when I'm in London though like you I can walk to Boundary way in 30 minutes or so. The forma is close to 250 ISO the 5222 is 250 ISO.

Kentmere400 is another option.

400 foot of 5222 was 124 GBP fall of 2013 so they are really milking the cow, they won't be selling much to cine people.

If you use 5222 (or other cine film) it is wise to one shot the developer or filter the stock bottle cause there can be a lot of film or emulsion chips.

The 5222 is nice film really fine grain for 250 ISO they should have sold it in 135 rather then Plus-x or Tmax100.

frobozz · Nov 10, 2015

FujiLove said:
Okay, I spoke to Kodak this morning and got the price of Double X:

400' rolls are £257.23 which works out at £64.31 per 100' or roughly £3.57 per roll. The minimum order value is £400, otherwise there is a £40 surcharge. They will post out or you can collect from the office in Hemel. The lead time is a maximum of 7 days.

1000' rolls are £642 (almost exactly the same per foot). All these prices include tax.

In comparison, at MacoDirect bulk rolls of HP5 are £51.11 and Foma Pan 200 is £31.81 per 100'. Quite a difference.

So that's crazy that they basically charge the exact same amount but put a pound sign in front instead of a dollar sign! That's an £87 markup, if I did the conversions right. I bet you could mail some film from the US to the UK for a lot less than $130 ! Even more savings if you do a few 400' rolls in one box.

The 1000' rolls in the US are also the same cost per foot, so basically no reason to buy them for our use since it just makes it harder to cut down into 100' rolls for the bulk loader.

Well, OK, sounds like Double-X is really only practical as a still film if you live in the US or Canada... unless you find some way to buy it at US prices and get it shipped. It's a nice film, but not nice enough to justify that markup.

Duncan

Ricardo Miranda · Nov 10, 2015

FujiLove said:
In comparison, at MacoDirect bulk rolls of HP5 are £51.11 and Foma Pan 200 is £31.81 per 100'. Quite a difference.

First, many thanks for talking to Koda.
Have you factored the 14.90Euros (£10.50) that cost the delivery from Maco?

For HP5+ the cheapest and best way is from Harman Express directly from the factory. It is about £56 and delivery is free. It is also fresh as a daisy.
But, I like Fomapan 400.

FujiLove · Nov 10, 2015

frobozz said:
So that's crazy that they basically charge the exact same amount but put a pound sign in front instead of a dollar sign!

Unfortunately a lot of US companies seem to forget that $1 doesn't equal £1!

Apple and Adobe are two of the worst offenders and have been doing this for years. I remember way back when it was around 1.8 dollars to the pound and Adobe sold their Creative Suite, or whatever they called it in those days, for the same number with a different sign in front. I spoke to a rep about it at a conference and he said something to the effect of it covering the extra taxes, translations(!) and import costs. Utter and complete BS. I think it boils down to the fact that if we want it, we have to pay it, and they know it.

Mind you, our own companies are as bad. Ilford make film in the UK, then transport it all the way to the US and sell it about 25% cheaper than they do here! Now THAT is a damn cheek.

FujiLove · Nov 10, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
Have you factored the 14.90Euros (£10.50) that cost the delivery from Maco?

No, I didn't factor in the postage for two reasons: 1. There would also be some kind of postage cost from Kodak or petrol and time involved in picking it up direct from the office, and 2. I already buy things from Maco, so it's not going to be any extra *for me*. But it does need factoring in.

Another very important consideration: you always get a packet of free sweeties from Maco, which I doubt Kodak will match. :munch:

mgb74 · Nov 10, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
I bulk load Eastman 5222 short ends. It is now my favorite film used at an EI of 400. Develop it in HC-110 1+49 for 8.5 m at 21C. Very reasonable to do. It pays to shop around for short ends. My favorite site is http://www.filmemporium.com/store. I find it best to call them as the availability of some films changes daily.

I see their short ends are advertised as 200-250 ft. If $.01 per foot, seems like a great deal even if shipping is high.

But do you use a bulk loader and, if so, how? As I understand, most bulk loaders won't handle a 200 ft spool. Also, is the film wound on a core or a spool? How is the film package from a lightproof perspective?

Thanks.

frobozz · Nov 10, 2015

mgb74 said:
I see their short ends are advertised as 200-250 ft. If $.01 per foot, seems like a great deal even if shipping is high.

But do you use a bulk loader and, if so, how? As I understand, most bulk loaders won't handle a 200 ft spool. Also, is the film wound on a core or a spool? How is the film package from a lightproof perspective?

Thanks.

Every short end I've ever seen comes on the original 2" plastic core, and in the original plastic bag and can - for instance a 200' short end is probably going to be in a 400' can with the original 400' black plastic bag.

5222 short ends are very hard to come by, and I can't imagine they would be $.01 per foot!

Duncan

mgb74 · Nov 10, 2015

I saw .01 on their website I did not put 2 and 2 together as to what that's equivalent to. My bad.

So I called them to find out. They told me they haven't had short ends of 5222 "in years".

Gerald C Koch · Nov 10, 2015

mgb74 said:
I see their short ends are advertised as 200-250 ft. If $.01 per foot, seems like a great deal even if shipping is high.

But do you use a bulk loader and, if so, how? As I understand, most bulk loaders won't handle a 200 ft spool. Also, is the film wound on a core or a spool? How is the film package from a lightproof perspective?

Thanks.

I spool off 100 ft from a larger roll. The short ends come on a plastic core and I use another as a take-up spool. I rigged up what is essentially a glorification of two nails on a board. I made up a crank that engages a hole in the take-up core. The rolls lie flat, a nail goes thru the center hole of each core. Once you get started the process is quite fast.

All the short ends that I have seen come in the metal cans that cine films come in. There may be no internal wrapping on the film and the can is sealed with tape. You must open it only in total darkness. The can for a 400 ft roll is 6 to 7 inches in diameter.

The best price I have encountered for 5222 was $0.10 per foot. Even at double this price that amounts to about $0.70 per 36 exp roll.

Remember that there are many color cine films negative and positive ones both ECN and C-41 processes.

pentaxuser · Nov 10, 2015

FujiLove said:
Unfortunately a lot of US companies seem to forget that $1 doesn't equal £1!

Apple and Adobe are two of the worst offenders and have been doing this for years. I remember way back when it was around 1.8 dollars to the pound and Adobe sold their Creative Suite, or whatever they called it in those days, for the same number with a different sign in front. I spoke to a rep about it at a conference and he said something to the effect of it covering the extra taxes, translations(!) and import costs. Utter and complete BS. I think it boils down to the fact that if we want it, we have to pay it, and they know it.

Mind you, our own companies are as bad. Ilford make film in the UK, then transport it all the way to the US and sell it about 25% cheaper than they do here! Now THAT is a damn cheek.

Yes forgetfulness is a sign of the great age of the companies. You forgive your elderly relatives such forgetfulness so why not extend it to these companies?

I am sure in their more lucid moments they'd see their forgetfulness as endearing. Something to be indulged. Of course like old relatives interaction with them when they are forgetful can be a draining experience - certainly on your wallet

We've been through this whole thing before and nothing has changed. How Kodak is getting any business in the U.K. on its bulk film is beyond me.

I'll buy bulk Kodak film in the U.K. when Hell next freezes over

pentaxuser

Gerald C Koch · Nov 10, 2015

Xmas said:
If you use 5222 (or other cine film) it is wise to one shot the developer or filter the stock bottle cause there can be a lot of film or emulsion chips.

I have never experienced this with the Eastman films. However it always pays to be careful. ECN films do have a ramjet coating that must be accounted for.

mklw1954 · Nov 10, 2015

The Ultrafine Xtreme 100 and 400 b&w films are good low-cost films: $34 per 100 ft. roll of 100 and $35 per 100 ft. roll of 400. I develop them in D76 stock (total of 4 rolls of 36-exp. per liter of D76): 8 min. for 100, 7 min. for 400, and use the Ilford agitation regime (4 inversions over the first 10 seconds, repeat every minute). Use a yellow filter to enhance the clouds, or an orange filter for more enhancement.

Xmas · Nov 10, 2015

mgb74 said:
I see their short ends are advertised as 200-250 ft. If $.01 per foot, seems like a great deal even if shipping is high.

But do you use a bulk loader and, if so, how? As I understand, most bulk loaders won't handle a 200 ft spool. Also, is the film wound on a core or a spool? How is the film package from a lightproof perspective?

Thanks.

It is easy to move 100 foot off from a 400 foot core on to an empty cine camera reel in a medium sized dark bag, you can do the same with 1000 feet of cine.

The reel allows two things avoidance of black spaghetti and an approximate measure for 100 foot.

If you have a dark room you can make up a jig.

A 200 foot loader avoids some wastage of film

Xmas · Nov 10, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
I have never experienced this with the Eastman films. However it always pays to be careful. ECN films do have a ramjet coating that must be accounted for.

I had to learn from experience three out of three 5222 cans different batches... It is simple one shotting developer.

Xmas · Nov 10, 2015

pentaxuser said:
I'll buy bulk Kodak film in the U.K. when Hell next freezes over

pentaxuser

As soon as that?

FujiLove · Nov 10, 2015

Bulk film that is incredibly cheap in the UK are short ends of colour movie film. I've seen that available for peanuts. Of course you have to deal with removing remjet (easy) and sometimes balancing odd colours (not so easy), but it is great value. Check out Frame24. Works out at around 80p per 36 exp roll.

Xmas · Nov 10, 2015

frobozz said:
So that's crazy that they basically charge the exact same amount but put a pound sign in front instead of a dollar sign! That's an £87 markup, if I did the conversions right. I bet you could mail some film from the US to the UK for a lot less than $130 ! Even more savings if you do a few 400' rolls in one box.

The 1000' rolls in the US are also the same cost per foot, so basically no reason to buy them for our use since it just makes it harder to cut down into 100' rolls for the bulk loader.

Well, OK, sounds like Double-X is really only practical as a still film if you live in the US or Canada... unless you find some way to buy it at US prices and get it shipped. It's a nice film, but not nice enough to justify that markup.

Duncan

Our sales tax is 20%, the only thing nice here is our weather.

Xmas · Nov 10, 2015

FujiLove said:
Bulk film that is incredibly cheap in the UK are short ends of colour movie film. I've seen that available for peanuts. Of course you have to deal with removing remjet (easy) and sometimes balancing odd colours (not so easy), but it is great value. Check out Frame24. Works out at around 80p per 36 exp roll.

Pound lands do 24 exp 200 ISO and sometimes 36 exp 400 ISO for a pound... Not in Hemel though.

FujiLove · Nov 10, 2015

Xmas said:
Pound lands do 24 exp 200 ISO and sometimes 36 exp 400 ISO for a pound... Not in Hemel though.

True. And that Agfa Vista 200 or 400 is underrated. My Pakon loves it!

frobozz · Nov 10, 2015

mgb74 said:
I saw .01 on their website I did not put 2 and 2 together as to what that's equivalent to. My bad.

So I called them to find out. They told me they haven't had short ends of 5222 "in years".

Ah yes, I went there to see for myself. $.01/ft is their code for "call us and find out what we have available, and for what price."

I've bought short ends of ECN2 stuff from them before. Good prices, good service. What I can't figure out is why anyone buys new film from them instead of directly from Kodak. They add quite a bit of markup - which is certainly necessary to run a business, but what are you getting for your $348 for 400' of 5222 from them, vs just calling up Kodak and getting it for $257? I don't get it.

Duncan

chrchr · Nov 10, 2015

In praise of bulk loading without a bulk loader:

I'm a 5222 user and I load cassettes in a dark room, e.g., the bathroom at night with the blinds closed. I wouldn't go back to a daylight bulk loader. This way, I can have different films without having to have a bulk loader for each. I don't have to worry about exposing the last frame or two at the end of a roll. I presume you could do it in a dark bag too, but I haven't tried that.

Gerald C Koch · Nov 10, 2015

The problem that I have always found in using a bag is that hands sweat in them. Also a word of caution use kiddy scissors, you know the ones with blunt, rounded ends. It's too easy to puncture the bag with ordinate ones.

OptiKen · Nov 10, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
The problem that I have always found in using a bag is that hands sweat in them. Also a word of caution use kiddy scissors, you know the ones with blunt, rounded ends. It's too easy to puncture the bag with ordinate ones.

Get some cheap cotton inspection gloves. No more humidity problem in the bags.

frobozz · Nov 10, 2015

Since someone had a question about the Shirley-Wellard cassettes, here are the instructions I scanned.

The cassette:
http://backglass.org/duncan/apug/sw_typec_cassette.pdf

And the loader (not daylight!):
http://backglass.org/duncan/apug/sw_cassette_loader.pdf

Duncan

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