Bulk film loading beginner

Larry the sailor · Mar 5, 2017

OK, I've got a couple of bulk loaders, a big ole bag of cassettes and a roll of HP5.
The loaders are old and still have film in them, one color and one B&W per the handwritten taped on labels. As with the rest of the stuff I got when I get them the film is minimum 15 years old stored in dry but non-temperature controlled conditions. I figure the color film is a write off anyway so plan to use it to practice with the loader. (still want to try the B&W)

Big question is how do you attach the end of the film to the roll? Some type of tape I'd guess but what is the preferred method?

kb244 · Mar 5, 2017

Masking tape, or gaffer tape usually.

Something that'll hold, but could be removed to reuse the spool if needed.

I use a couple different loaders, some smaller ones (Llyods) with felt that go by the number of turns, and a larger alden 74 that's felt less (less chance of scratching the emulsion as you load it), but you need to turn to unlock the door so that the film can travel freely as you wind it (which has a dial that shows you how many frames/meters you have wound.

So if you wanted to hold onto the color roll, you could stash it away in a plastic darkbag or tin, making sure to tape the end. But I would completely inspect the loader after getting the roll out, clean out any loose dust/rust/debris, double check to make sure nothing is in the felt that could scratch the negatives as it travels.

There's quite a few videos on youtube on using them, especially that Alden 74.

By the way in case you didn't know, there's roughly 18 rolls of 36 exposures in a 100 foot roll. Just in case you're comparing prices (for example Kodak Tri-X and T-Max is more expensive in a bulk roll around $120-130, compared to just buying 18 36ct rolls for around $80-90.)

bdial · Mar 5, 2017

I've used plain old Scotch tape when I didn't have anything else, but masking tape is my preference.
As Karl indicates, bulk loading used to be a way of working cheaply, but now it's more of a way of working with old film, or "special" stuff like motion picture films. The other handy thing about working with bulk loaded film is that you can make short rolls.

blockend · Mar 5, 2017

Simplest way is to leave a film leader out of about 3/4 inch, cut square, and attach the new film to that. You'll be able to feel for it and detach much easier in the dark. If the cassette is completely empty you will have to find a way of opening it up without ruining the cap, some have a destructive seal like a beer bottle, others can be popped off. In the UK bulk film is often much cheaper than pre-loaded cassettes, at least in black and white. I would certainly give the colour film a go, the dyes may have shifted a little but are probably still useable, especially with a tweak in post.

kb244 · Mar 5, 2017

bdial said:
I've used plain old Scotch tape when I didn't have anything else, but masking tape is my preference.
As Karl indicates, bulk loading used to be a way of working cheaply, but now it's more of a way of working with old film, or "special" stuff like motion picture films. The other handy thing about working with bulk loaded film is that you can make short rolls.

There's still a few films that are cheaper in bulk than they are in rolls, but the most popular ones that's been around the most are either more expensive or not that much of a saving for the 'convenience' (unless your thing is to spool 12 exposure rolls ). For example while Kodak Tri-X and TMax may be not worth the cost, but some Ilford (HP5+ is about $59 for 100' versus $98 for 18x 36 rolls), and such are more affordable. Or can go even cheaper with Arista EDU Ultra (Foma rebranded, about $45 for 100', versus $70 for 18x rolls).

I think you can get some Ultrafine Extreme 100 and 400 for about $30-ish per 100' roll. Kentmere 100 and 400 are about $40 for 100 foot roll (Kentmere is made by the same company that makes Harman, but it's not the same emulsion as HP5+/FP4+).

ac12 · Mar 5, 2017

I used masking tape.
Easy to rip off in the darkroom when loading the film reel.

Rick A · Mar 5, 2017

I always use green painters tape, sticks to the film a bit better, still easy to remove the film from it even after prolonged use.

Pentode · Mar 5, 2017

I just use a piece of Scotch transparent tape.

silveror0 · Mar 5, 2017

I haven't read all the posts, so this may not have been mentioned. Make sure the cassette light traps are clean before loading them. One piece of grit in the trap can ruin a whole load with scratch over the full length of film ... don't ask how I know.

Pioneer · Mar 5, 2017

Plain old scotch tape has worked just fine for me for a long time. I have a long enough strip of tape to attach to the film on one side and then wrap around the spool to attach to the film on the back (emulsion) side.

Don't forget to open the light trap before you start loading the film on the cassette. I cannot speak for anyone else but this is by far my #1 cause of scratches on bulk film.

destroya · Mar 5, 2017

Pioneer said:
Plain old scotch tape has worked just fine for me for a long time. I have a long enough strip of tape to attach to the film on one side and then wrap around the spool to attach to the film on the back (emulsion) side.

+1

kb244 · Mar 5, 2017

Pioneer said:
Don't forget to open the light trap before you start loading the film on the cassette. I cannot speak for anyone else but this is by far my #1 cause of scratches on bulk film.

That course only applies if you have a felt less type of loader like an alden 74, my Lloyd's for example don't have an open/close light trap just a slit of felt.

TSSPro · Mar 5, 2017

Cut strips of Gaf tape. It's always held for me even when using large motor/auto winders.

MattKing · Mar 5, 2017

Masking tape for me.
I make sure that the tape makes good contact with the spool and both sides of the film.
It is important to remember that the taped part of the film, plus a few more inches is unavailable due to light fog - you need to be disciplined about stopping your shooting before you reach the physical end of the film.
A count down frame counter can be quite handy for that.

kb244 · Mar 5, 2017

MattKing said:
Masking tape for me.
I make sure that the tape makes good contact with the spool and both sides of the film.
It is important to remember that the taped part of the film, plus a few more inches is unavailable due to light fog - you need to be disciplined about stopping your shooting before you reach the physical end of the film.
A count down frame counter can be quite handy for that.

Usually why I tend to wind out that one extra frame. 36 will usually show up within a safe margin of the exposed portion if I wound 37. Least on the Lloyd's, on the alden the amount of exposed excess is greater since it has a larger door opening.

The alden is nicer in the sense that it doesn't risk scratching the film if you open the trap properly and counts off the frames/meters for you, but the downside is you waste more frames exposed as you load up a spool.

The Lloyd's don't have a counter and uses a felt strip to keep light tight, haven't had a problem with scratches in either two I have but the potential exists. The door is much smaller (no bigger than the spool itself) so the exposed area at the end is no bigger than a frame or so. It counts by a guide telling you how many turns for how many frames.

Larry the sailor · Mar 5, 2017

I guess I should of mentioned what type of loaders I have, they are Watsons.
I happened to be developing some film last night and this morning so I ran off about 20 frames of the "C-41 Color Print Film" and included it with a fresh roll of Ektar I was running. Ektar came out fine, the old stuff was fogged black edge to edge. Also tried the same with the B&W, it was also completely fogged. Didn't really expect much from either but at least I tried it. Darn shame the B&W was almost a full roll on a metal reel, the C41 was only about a ½ a roll left.
Loaded my HP5+ and loaded up 5 rolls with about 26 exposures each. The "clicker" wasn't working quite like it should in the one I used, might have to take it back in the dark and swap out units to see if the other works better.

kb244 · Mar 5, 2017

Larry the sailor said:
I guess I should of mentioned what type of loaders I have, they are Watsons.
I happened to be developing some film last night and this morning so I ran off about 20 frames of the "C-41 Color Print Film" and included it with a fresh roll of Ektar I was running. Ektar came out fine, the old stuff was fogged black edge to edge. Also tried the same with the B&W, it was also completely fogged. Didn't really expect much from either but at least I tried it. Darn shame the B&W was almost a full roll on a metal reel, the C41 was only about a ½ a roll left.
Loaded my HP5+ and loaded up 5 rolls with about 26 exposures each. The "clicker" wasn't working quite like it should in the one I used, might have to take it back in the dark and swap out units to see if the other works better.

Sometimes you can shoot the film at 2 stops or more below their box speed with 20% longer development time to get something "usable" out of them. Depending on just how badly fogged you see.

This is off of an expired roll of Plux-X bulk roll (expired in 1972).

And a shot of the sleeve sitting on the light table to see it's relative density.

The film is 125, but I exposed it as it were ISO 50, from my first test I figured any future shots I'll have much better luck aiming for ISO 25.

Larry the sailor · Mar 5, 2017

The old B&W film come out of 8.5 minutes of D76 completely black edge to edge. The roll of Delta 100 in the tank with it came out great.

tokam · Mar 6, 2017

+1 for masking tape. The one tape I probably wouldn't use is electrical tape - most of the older stuff I encountered didn't stick very well.

blockend · Mar 6, 2017

Larry the sailor said:
The old B&W film come out of 8.5 minutes of D76 completely black edge to edge. The roll of Delta 100 in the tank with it came out great.

It had been exposed to light at some point.

Agulliver · Mar 6, 2017

Sounds like your bulk loaders have been opened up and the film exposed to light at some point, which is a shame. It might still be worth wasting 10 or 20 feet of the B&W film and trying again, in case only the gate of the Watson (light trap) was opened.

The Watsons are a little fiddly but are probably more reliable than Lloyds types once you get the hang of them. I use both types, and both work. The genuine Watsons are better than the copies (such as Prinz branded 66 models).

I attach my film end to the spool with either masking tape or Sellotape/Scotch tape...just regular adhesive tape. Only one camera that I own has a motor strong enough to unstick it. Just cut the protruding piece of film straight, tape it to the spool with about 2cm of tape on the film and 1.5cm on the film (should match the circumference of the spool).

I believe the clicker is activated by the film running correctly over the sprockets in the bulk loader. The Watsons have a set of sprockets just after the light trap, between the trap and the takeup spool. The sprocket holes need to run over these sprockets to activate the clicker.

Bulk film loading beginner

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