Built in Meter? Yes? No?

L Gebhardt · Jan 23, 2012

With everyone pushing the hand held meters it's no wonder I haven't sold my metering prisms for the Mamiya RZ or 645. I bought them mostly for macro and close up work where having a ttl meter really helps. In general I use a hand held meter, mostly my Pentax spot.

maliha · Jan 23, 2012

Thank you so much all of you for your input. Some of this is a bit overwhelming as I am photo-technology-challenged!!

When I am doing portraits, as I mentioned in my initial post, I usually use my DSLR which gives me a somewhat accurate reading and also helps me see what to expect before switching to film. But I understand if I'm shooting with a busy backdrop then having a handheld meter may be unbeatable.

The only reason I was hoping for something built in is for the quick photos. For example, I'm in the city, or attending an event, and need to quickly capture something. Usually in this situation I revert to my basic beginner's camera (Pentax MV1 35mm) as it is light, and the built in meter lets me make a quick judgement.

Problems with Pentax MV1: First of all, it's basic. Photos either come out right or they don't. Also, lately I am finding 35mm sort of boring.

For these situation I thought may be having a built in meter would be helpful than a handheld one. So I think metered prism is the answer? May be I should try out several options and see which works better before making a purchase though. I mean by now I have an okay idea as to what shutter speed and ISO combo work in outdoor situation, but guesswork is just that... guesswork... no guarantee it will be perfect in any situation.

As I am shooting more and more I am finding more and more obstacles... shouldn't it have been the opposite? Sigh...

Also, I'm using an android phone... may be I should look into light meter apps for android? That might help and save me some bucks too!! I mean, I'm not a pro shooter, so sometimes I feel guilty spending so much when there may be other alternatives available.

Johnkpap · Jan 24, 2012

A TTL (metered Prism) is avaliable for the pentax 6x7 KEH has them for about $100.00 you should also be able to get one from $BAY

Regards

Johnkpap

Newt_on_Swings · Jan 24, 2012

Well one other possibility that no one has posted yet is to use a thyristor flash unit. It wont be as good as a hand held light meter, or a built in meter of a camera, but since you said you mostly have problems guessing exposure indoors, this type of automatic flash could work for you. Just read off the back exposure guide number diagrams which would indicate what settings you should be near to get good exposure. All you have to know is aperture, distance, and film speed. Syncing speeds vary though. The thyristor automatically calculates how much flash is needed for proper exposure.

This could be 2 birds with one stone if you dont have a flash unit as well.

That being said, I would recommend the light meter I use routinely, the Polaris 5. It comes with all accessories and case included, backlit screen, 1 AA battery powered, 5 degree spot meter(would have been much nicer if it was 1 degree), and is very compact. I got it LNIB for around $160 or so a bit back.

markbarendt · Jan 24, 2012

maliha said:
When I am doing portraits, as I mentioned in my initial post, I usually use my DSLR which gives me a somewhat accurate reading and also helps me see what to expect before switching to film. But I understand if I'm shooting with a busy backdrop then having a handheld meter may be unbeatable.

This need to see before the fact will fade as you get more experience and your confidence grows.

maliha said:
Problems with Pentax MV1: First of all, it's basic. Photos either come out right or they don't.

This is a two part problem, 1-the camera making a decision, 2-reflective metering.

maliha said:
Also, lately I am finding 35mm sort of boring.

For these situation I thought may be having a built in meter would be helpful than a handheld one. So I think metered prism is the answer? May be I should try out several options and see which works better before making a purchase though. I mean by now I have an okay idea as to what shutter speed and ISO combo work in outdoor situation, but guesswork is just that... guesswork... no guarantee it will be perfect in any situation.

maliha said:
As I am shooting more and more I am finding more and more obstacles... shouldn't it have been the opposite? Sigh...

You can make photography as hard or as easy as you want.

The apps are easy and cheap and workable. Much better than nothing.

The metered prisms have the advantage of being part of the camera.

Hand held incident meters, once learned, really take the guessing out.

stavrosk · Jan 24, 2012

Nothing can replace incident metering. Really makes the difference for a perfectly exposed photo.

removed account4 · Jan 24, 2012

if you have to ... i'd go for handheld they appear here and on the auction site
for not too much $ or as joel and others have suggested the app for your telephonic device ...

it might be more helpful just to learn to read the light, much cheaper than a prism, or meter

http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm

have fun!
john

hnrh2 · Jan 25, 2012

stavrosk said:
Nothing can replace incident metering. Really makes the difference for a perfectly exposed photo.

Nothing can replace built in metering with AE and center weight. Really makes the difference between a decently exposed negative and a non existent perfectly exposed photo.

This being said, the choice really depends on how you take pictures. If time is somewhat an issue then built in metering is good. If you have plenty of time then incident. I also find that TTL metering tends to be better and more convenient than reflective metering hand held.

ooze · Jan 25, 2012

hnrh2 said:
If time is somewhat an issue then built in metering is good. If you have plenty of time then incident.

Not at all. With incident you meter once and keep shooting until the light changes. There is no need to overcomplicate the matter really. Both incident and reflective metering can provide adequate starting points for an exposure, assuming you know how to meter.

I prefer incident metering. I'm more in tune with the light that way. Once I sense that the intensity or direction of the light has changed I tend to make a guess at the new exposure and maybe reconfirm it with the incident meter. That might not be so easy with a reflective meter since your subject and hence the reflectance values you see have changed.

markbarendt · Jan 25, 2012

hnrh2 said:
Nothing can replace built in metering with AE and center weight. Really makes the difference between a decently exposed negative and a non existent perfectly exposed photo.

This being said, the choice really depends on how you take pictures. If time is somewhat an issue then built in metering is good. If you have plenty of time then incident. I also find that TTL metering tends to be better and more convenient than reflective metering hand held.

While I do believe that good work can be done with any type of meter, the time needed to meter isn't really an issue unless we aren't paying attention.

AE does have an advantage when we are grabbing a camera, that we have been ignoring, out of a bag to get a quick shot.

But if I've got a camera close at hand because I think there's a shot handy, I will have done my metering the moment I walked in to that lighting situation.

Three quick readings from the incident meter; front lit, cross lit, back lit, and I'm ready to run a whole roll in most any lighting situation without looking at a meter again. When I spot a shot, by the time my camera gets to my eye the exposure is set since it's normally just 1 or 2 clicks of the time knob/ring away.

This pre measured style of shooting is really fast even with a fully manual or a MF camera as is the case with the OP.

wiltw · Jan 25, 2012

There is a time for incident metering, there is a time for reflective metering with an in-camera meter.

I know well, and utilize, the benefits of incident metering. But imagine this situation...you are standing across the street in sunlight. You spot a fleeting event across the street, where the subject is in the shadow of the building which shields the sun from that side of the street. Incident metering is useless...not enough time to meter across the street and then run back to shoot. And standing in place while simply shielding the hemisphere from sun via your hand would be insufficient because of the bright light reflecting back to the hemisphere from the walls behind you, wrongly biasing the reading! A TTL meter in the camera would get the shot.

Aristophanes · Jan 25, 2012

Incident metering = You have time.

Reflective metering = You have opportunity.

markbarendt · Jan 25, 2012

wiltw said:
There is a time for incident metering, there is a time for reflective metering with an in-camera meter.

I know well, and utilize, the benefits of incident metering. But imagine this situation...you are standing across the street in sunlight. You spot a fleeting event across the street, where the subject is in the shadow of the building which shields the sun from that side of the street. Incident metering is useless...not enough time to meter across the street and then run back to shoot. And standing in place while simply shielding the hemisphere from sun via your hand would be insufficient because of the bright light reflecting back to the hemisphere from the walls behind you, wrongly biasing the reading! A TTL meter in the camera would get the shot.

No problem. Think zones.

If your standing in sunny 16, the open shade setting across the street will be very close to f5.6 instead of f16, plus or minus personal bias. If it's cross lit a bit f8, fully cross lit f11.

That's not a guess, if you know whats happening where you are you can generally figure out the rest very quickly.

wiltw · Jan 25, 2012

That is a nice generalization. However, to illustrate the amount of error, I just measured at the back of my house in bright sunlight and while Sunny 16 held true (ISO 100, 1/100 f/16) in the sun; at the front of my house and in the shade shielded by the house, I measured between -4.4EV and -5.7EV difference in light depending upon exactly where I took the reading of the gray card...f/5.6 would have been wrong. Sunny 16 derivative says -4EV for open shade (f/4), but even that would be in error compared to what I measured.

maliha · Jan 25, 2012

There are a lot of options and from reading every single post in this thread I think I can safely conclude that it mostly depends how much one is used to their own metering device. learning one method well is probably going to save a shot for many.

As for me, I am not used to metering, and I don't even know how to meter. never used a meter to begin with. I don't usually need a meter for pre-decided shoots as I have enough time at hand. For most quick shoots, I feel like I should go for a TTL, from what I have read so far, and seems like this is the least complicated. And lighting conditions can change very drastically in certain areas (unless I live in Colorado or Southern California). So if I have to keep metering then that will be a problem. I have sunny 16 down but I still get nervous every time I'm blindly setting my shutter speed. From experience I have realized that mot times it's better to over expose than under expose, but from time to time I have made mistakes.

So yeah, I guess I will start with a TTL prism, and move from there.

markbarendt · Jan 25, 2012

wiltw said:
That is a nice generalization. However, to illustrate the amount of error, I just measured at the back of my house in bright sunlight and while Sunny 16 held true (ISO 100, 1/100 f/16) in the sun; at the front of my house and in the shade shielded by the house, I measured between -4.4EV and -5.7EV difference in light depending upon exactly where I took the reading of the gray card...f/5.6 would have been wrong. Sunny 16 derivative says -4EV for open shade (f/4), but even that would be in error compared to what I measured.

So shooting trannies I might have a problem but my negatives are very reliable at those settings.

Actually the numbers I put up are typical of actual incident meter reading in those situations.

I actually go to f4 for fully back lit subjects.

There is also a fair dose of bias applied in any exposure decision.

My big point is simply that with a bit of practice and judgement good exposures can be made quickly in full manual.

robbalbrecht · Jan 29, 2012

This one is surprisingly accurate and free. http://www.squit.co.uk/photo/exposurecalc.html
That, Sunny 16, and a Sekonic spot meter is my metering arsenal. Which one I use depends on the mood I'm in when I head out the door.

Built in Meter? Yes? No?

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