BTZS & Phil Davis

frednewman · Jul 7, 2010

I was very fortunate to know Phil Davis. It was a great learning experience.

Phil did a lot of commercial photography and one of his early jobs was to photograph black tires on asphalt (black on black). He came away from this experience very frustrated by the poor results and concluded bracketing didn't work. He said to himself there has to be a better, easier way to get properly exposed negatives.

After studying the science of photography Phil came up with BTZS (Beyond the Zone System). Originally all the film and paper testing was done by hand which was a lot of work; the original BTZS workshop took about two weeks because of this.

To make the process faster Phil decided to learn programming. The original Plotter program was written for the MAC and later ported to DOS. The current version of Plotter runs on Windows XP, Vista and Windows 7. Plotter makes film and paper testing easier by simplifying entering the data and automatically drawing the film and paper curves.

Fred Newman

Mahler_one · Jul 7, 2010

A great system that simplifies the process of matching the subject densities on the film to the tonal values possible on the printing paper. As Fred stated, plotter makes the curves very easy to construct. Phil also developed a program termed ExPoDev which enables one to take the testing data into the filed and use one's data to quickly determine the correct film exposure and development time.

Personally, I don't think that Phil Davis ever received enough recognition for his ability to "expand" upon the concepts of the Zone System, and by doing so, making such concepts more easily usable and understandable by a large number of LF photographers. One of the reasons that Phil Davis might not have received just credit Fred is because his "body of work" i.e., his photographs, are not as well known as those of other photographers.

domaz · Jul 7, 2010

It's too bad ExpoDev is only for Palm Pilot. However it might be worth noting that you can run Palm OS software on a Windows Mobile, Symbian or iPhone with an emulator.

frednewman · Jul 7, 2010

Thanks for the suggestion. I thought Apple banned emulators from the iPhone but I notice that StyleTap Platform for iPhone® is now available. Unfortunately for jail broken phones only.

Zathras · Jul 7, 2010

frednewman said:
I was very fortunate to know Phil Davis. It was a great learning experience.

Phil did a lot of commercial photography and one of his early jobs was to photograph black tires on asphalt (black on black). He came away from this experience very frustrated by the poor results and concluded bracketing didn't work. He said to himself there has to be a better, easier way to get properly exposed negatives.

After studying the science of photography Phil came up with BTZS (Beyond the Zone System). Originally all the film and paper testing was done by hand which was a lot of work; the original BTZS workshop took about two weeks because of this.

To make the process faster Phil decided to learn programming. The original Plotter program was written for the MAC and later ported to DOS. The current version of Plotter runs on Windows XP, Vista and Windows 7. Plotter makes film and paper testing easier by simplifying entering the data and automatically drawing the film and paper curves.

Fred Newman

Hi Fred,

I have the original Mac version of Plotter/Matcher. Is there any chance that the software will ever be made available to run on OSX?

Lee L · Jul 7, 2010

domaz said:
It's too bad ExpoDev is only for Palm Pilot. However it might be worth noting that you can run Palm OS software on a Windows Mobile, Symbian or iPhone with an emulator.

POSE (Palm OS Emulator) is also available for linux. If you're a bit of a hacker, you might be able to get POSE going on OS-X, which is basically a custom BSD unix with a custom GUI.

Mahler_one · Jul 7, 2010

domaz said:
It's too bad ExpoDev is only for Palm Pilot. However it might be worth noting that you can run Palm OS software on a Windows Mobile, Symbian or iPhone with an emulator.

Thanks for the information!

Ed

Sirius Glass · Jul 7, 2010

Zathras said:
Is there any chance that the software will ever be made available to run on OSX?

Ditto. Running on Windows is useless to me. If it is not on OS X, I will not bother with the body of work. A QUIET HINT: If it is ported to java, it would run on all machines.

Steve

Mahler_one · Jul 7, 2010

Fred: Valid comments regarding the operating systems that ExpoDev and Plotter can run on. Can the programs be adapted to run on the OS that others have noted? Judging from the responses, demand for both programs might increase significantly. Can Dennis help?

domaz · Jul 8, 2010

Lee L said:
POSE (Palm OS Emulator) is also available for linux. If you're a bit of a hacker, you might be able to get POSE going on OS-X, which is basically a custom BSD unix with a custom GUI.

ExpoDev is a mobile application though so it might not be worth the trouble. You won't get it working on iPhone without jailbreaking- apparently because of Steve Job's holy war against emulators and Java. The Plotter desktop program should run with any Windows emulator on OSX.

Sirius Glass · Jul 8, 2010

domaz said:
The Plotter desktop program should run with any Windows emulator on OSX.

That is like putting a Model T Ford engine in a Ferrari! No way in f____g Hell will that ever happen. I run a DOS Free and Windows Free environment at home. That keeps my systems virus free, Trojan Horse free, and worm free. If the software can't be ported from the 19th century into the 21st century it is not work the disk space it takes ===> then the software is a WOMBAT!

Steve

WOMBAT == Waste Of Money Brains And Time

Note to self: Remember not to hold back opinion about the crappy Micro$oft operating system(s).

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 8, 2010

I've seen a number of prints made with the BTZS, and it appears to work really well. He did the photography community a nice favor to develop the system.
Hopefully somebody that fully understands the whole approach, software, and programming, can continue to carry it forward.

Thanks for posting.

- Thomas

frednewman said:
I was very fortunate to know Phil Davis. It was a great learning experience.

Phil did a lot of commercial photography and one of his early jobs was to photograph black tires on asphalt (black on black). He came away from this experience very frustrated by the poor results and concluded bracketing didn't work. He said to himself there has to be a better, easier way to get properly exposed negatives.

After studying the science of photography Phil came up with BTZS (Beyond the Zone System). Originally all the film and paper testing was done by hand which was a lot of work; the original BTZS workshop took about two weeks because of this.

To make the process faster Phil decided to learn programming. The original Plotter program was written for the MAC and later ported to DOS. The current version of Plotter runs on Windows XP, Vista and Windows 7. Plotter makes film and paper testing easier by simplifying entering the data and automatically drawing the film and paper curves.

Fred Newman

Lee L · Jul 8, 2010

domaz said:
ExpoDev is a mobile application though so it might not be worth the trouble. You won't get it working on iPhone without jailbreaking- apparently because of Steve Job's holy war against emulators and Java. The Plotter desktop program should run with any Windows emulator on OSX.

Might be useful though on a netbook or Android device (if there's a Palm emulator on Android). I don't have a cell phone, so haven't explored that.

I just downloaded the BTZS Plotter demo and it seems to run just fine (the parts that aren't disabled in the demo) under my current version of Wine (Wine Is Not an Emulator), which provides an environment for MS Windows programs to run in under linux.

Lee

frednewman · Jul 8, 2010

Hi domaz - That's what Phil Davis did - he was a Mac person and ran the plotter program on has Mac with an emulator.

Fred Newman

Sirius Glass · Jul 8, 2010

Lee L said:
I don't have a cell phone, so haven't explored that.

I have a cell phone, but I have it set up not to receive text messages or email. It has no camera. It has not internet connection. It is a telephone that is used as a telephone. So I am not interested in applications for telephone or palm-like instruments.

Steve

Robert Budding · Jul 9, 2010

Sirius Glass said:
That is like putting a Model T Ford engine in a Ferrari! No way in f____g Hell will that ever happen. I run a DOS Free and Windows Free environment at home. That keeps my systems virus free, Trojan Horse free, and worm free. If the software can't be ported from the 19th century into the 21st century it is not work the disk space it takes ===> then the software is a WOMBAT!

Steve

WOMBAT == Waste Of Money Brains And Time

Note to self: Remember not to hold back opinion about the crappy Micro$oft operating system(s).

Silly analogy. Win 7 *is* a modern 64 bit OS. And it works just fine for the vast majority of users.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 9, 2010

Yaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnnn!

Sirius Glass · Jul 9, 2010

Robert Budding said:
Silly analogy. Win 7 *is* a modern 64 bit OS. And it works just fine for the vast majority of users.

It is not an analogy. I work with Windows systems all day and I know their problems. At home I have a life so I use a Mac. I value my free time too much to own a Windoz system. If I had nothing in my life and I wanted to keep busy I would have a Windoz system.

L Gebhardt · Jul 9, 2010

Sirius Glass said:
It is not an analogy. I work with Windows systems all day and I know their problems. At home I have a life so I use a Mac. I value my free time too much to own a Windoz system. If I had nothing in my life and I wanted to keep busy I would have a Windoz system.

While I do the same, I have found running windows in Parallels to be a very pain free experience. It lets me run programs like Win Plotter, so it's worth the minimal effort. I don't browse the web through the Windows VM, so it's been virus free for many years now.

I would like to see an updated version of the app though, and making it run on OSX would be most welcome.

k_jupiter · Jul 9, 2010

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Yaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnnn!

Ditto.

tim in san jose

stevebrot · Jul 11, 2010

L Gebhardt said:
...I would like to see an updated version of the app though, and making it run on OSX would be most welcome.

A port might be possible. Anyone have any idea what might have become of the source code and what languages were involved?

Steve

squinonescolon · Nov 22, 2010

Would simply reading the book and understanding the system be enough to create something like expo dev or is there any special sauce that we have to know in order to develop something. Furthermore If I were to develop something would I run into licensing issues?
Steven

Mahler_one · Nov 22, 2010

I'll let Fred and others more knowledgeable about the BTZS, computers, programs, and licensing issues reply in greater depth. However, why go to all of the trouble when the ExpoDev program is available to you at such a reasonable price? Moreover, if you need to test just one or two films, then the cost through The View Camera Store is also reasonable, and saves the expense of buying a densitometer. Finally, one could also easily test the paper one intends to use, and send the test sheets to Fred who can then incorporate all of the data ( film and paper ) into the program saving you lots of time-and probably lots of expense. If one did not want to go the trouble of entering testing data into a computer program, then the BTZS book provides all of the details as to the method(s) of testing and plotting. One could then easily carry the curves "into the field", and with a few quick incident meter readings determine the SBR, relevant film speed, and exposure. Back in the darkroom the same curves would indicate the correct developing time. So, BTZS can be used via computer, or manually. The one essential need is to at least test the film and developer combination that one plans to use. Just to avoid any potential misunderstandings, please note that I have no financial interest in the View Camera Store. I have taken the BTZS workshop with Fred, and use the BTZS Sytem.

Comments from Fred and others gratefully received!

Ed

jvo · Nov 23, 2010

windows/socialist

windows equals full employment - as a socialist i'm all for it!!!!

telesma · Feb 15, 2023

Zathras said:
Hi Fred,

I have the original Mac version of Plotter/Matcher. Is there any chance that the software will ever be made available to run on OSX?

I am searching for the old Macintosh version of Plotter/Matcher. Could you please message me if you have the floppy disks and want to trade them to me?

BTZS & Phil Davis

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