Brownish stain on edge of TMAX 400 120 negatives

jeffreythree · Aug 9, 2015

I wanted to confirm this brownish stain is probably not enough fixing or exhausted fixer(or both) since I am pretty new to this and still on my first batch of fixer. Specifics are expired in '05 TMAX 400 120 film developed in Diafine(3 min A, 3 min B), water stop bath, fixed for 7 minutes with Arista Odorless Fixer, and rinsed with a modified Ilford inversion method(5, 10, 15, 20).

Kevin Harding · Aug 9, 2015

How old is your first batch of fixer? If it's quite old, or has a lot of film run through it, it may be exhausted.

Did you test the fix with some 35mm film leader, perhaps? To get your 7 min fix time?

I'd wager a brownish stain is likely exhausted fix, but I won't bet my entire reputation on it

pentaxuser · Aug 9, 2015

To help can you tell us how many films had you fixed in the same Arista fixer before the '05 Tmax and over what period the brown stain appeared post processing. A scan of a colour picture of the negative might help

A brown stain might be a little too broad without some more information to help us

pentaxuser

jeffreythree · Aug 9, 2015

Kevin Harding said:
How old is your first batch of fixer? If it's quite old, or has a lot of film run through it, it may be exhausted.

Did you test the fix with some 35mm film leader, perhaps? To get your 7 min fix time?

I'd wager a brownish stain is likely exhausted fix, but I won't bet my entire reputation on it

The fixer is 2 months old with about 14 rolls fixed. I tested when fresh and added a minute to double that clear time. I have not tested since.

pentaxuser said:
To help can you tell us how many films had you fixed in the same Arista fixer before the '05 Tmax and over what period the brown stain appeared post processing. A scan of a colour picture of the negative might help

A brown stain might be a little too broad without some more information to help us

pentaxuser

About 14 rolls fixed, but hard to tell since I did some 12 exp color as B&W through it and some cut pieces of 35mm used in a pinhole camera. I scanned part of the film, see below, and it looks more purple than brown on the edges now that it is dry.

Sirius Glass · Aug 9, 2015

From the color purple I strongly suspect that you need to wash the film longer to get rid of the purple cast and then rinse in PhotoFlo. After that you may have found that the brown stain has left the negatives.

pentaxuser · Aug 9, 2015

Can you be more specific about the fixer that is used? If this is the same quantity of fixer i.e. let's say you made up a 1+4 working fix solution and then used that same solution on 14 films, some or all of which was Tmax then this is way beyond what fixer is designed to fix.

I'd need to hear your response to my questions as I may have misunderstood what I think you are saying but if you have fixed 14 films in the same solution then I'd say your fixer was exhausted after maybe 4 films.

Even if it wasn't fully exhausted after 4 films it makes sense to have dumped it.

pentaxuser

bdial · Aug 9, 2015

TMax is tough on fixer, so is color, because there are three layers of silver halide instead of one.
You should re-test the fixer, but it looks to me like the negatives may be under-fixed, possibly under-washed too because of how much purple dye is at the edge.
You need to test the clearing time each time you process. If a piece of leader isn't convenient, open the tank at half of your normal fix time and see if the negatives are cleared. If they aren't, monitor every minute or so, then give them that amount of time again. That time is what you start with the next time you process.
When your clearing time is double what it was when the fixer was fresh it's time for a new batch.

Sirius Glass · Aug 9, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
From the color purple I strongly suspect that you need to wash the film longer to get rid of the purple cast and then rinse in PhotoFlo. After that you may have found that the brown stain has left the negatives.

You also need to refix your film with fresh hypo.

Peter Schrager · Aug 9, 2015

arista fixer sucks! i tried it and it's weak stuff. use the TF-4 or 5 from the formulary for TMY400 and buy buckets of fixer for your prints; don't forget to add some sodium bisufite
Best, Peter

jeffreythree · Aug 9, 2015

I put it back in the fixer and the edges were clear when checked at 1 minute. No purple either after rewashing. I think I will start over with some fresh fixer next roll. Lesson learned on testing each time. One extra question. How many rolls can your average fixer last? When I first started buying chemicals the opinion was odorless did not last as long as regular rapid fixers and would only last for 20 rolls. If it is only 4 rolls as pentaxuser suggests, fixing would get expensive real quick (~$1.50 a roll with the cheap stuff).

dreamingartemis · Aug 9, 2015

Might I make a suggestion? Try putting the roll in the same fixer but don't roll it onto a spool, see if the brown stains clears up. It could be the spool you're using that is causing the problem.

jeffreythree · Aug 9, 2015

Peter Schrager said:
arista fixer sucks! i tried it and it's weak stuff. use the TF-4 or 5 from the formulary for TMY400 and buy buckets of fixer for your prints; don't forget to add some sodium bisufite
Best, Peter

Yeah, I noticed but it was what I had. It never cleared as fast as the data sheet said it should, twice as long actually. I will have to look into the TF-4 and 5. I had not heard of them.

bdial · Aug 9, 2015

The capacity of fixers vary. The data-sheet should give you a rough indication of how many square inches/cm/whatever of film or paper per liter or gal. a particular fixer is good for.

But, you still need to test because there are many variables, T-grain films vs conventional, for example.

FWIW, the most economical fixer I've found is C-41 fix from Kodak, it comes in 5 gallon bags of concentrate. Expensive to ship, but cheaper than shipping 5 one gallon containers 5 times (at least it used to be). Also, since Kodak doesn't publish info for use with B&W materials, you need to do your own testing for times and dilutions using a retained silver test. The other downside is that the packaging is intended for mini-labs, storing 5 gallons of concentrate is a bit of a pain, and the required pouring spigot doesn't come with it.

If you aren't interested in "test pilot mode", TF-4 and TF-5 are reliable, also Ilford Hypam is good, and reasonably cost-effective, another good one to consider would be Sprint.

jeffreythree · Aug 9, 2015

pentaxuser said:
Can you be more specific about the fixer that is used? If this is the same quantity of fixer i.e. let's say you made up a 1+4 working fix solution and then used that same solution on 14 films, some or all of which was Tmax then this is way beyond what fixer is designed to fix.

I'd need to hear your response to my questions as I may have misunderstood what I think you are saying but if you have fixed 14 films in the same solution then I'd say your fixer was exhausted after maybe 4 films.

Even if it wasn't fully exhausted after 4 films it makes sense to have dumped it.

pentaxuser

I realize now where I may have been confusing, or confused. I am working with Freestyle's Arista Premium Odorless Fixer powder, not liquid, with a 1 gallon working solution. The 1 gallon has fixed 14 36 exposure 35mm or 120 roll films.

MattKing · Aug 9, 2015

I wouldn't lean toward using "odorless" fixer for film. I would appreciate odorless fixer for prints.

The exposure to the smell is much less a problem when your fixer isn't in an open tray.

I use the manufacturer's capacity recomendation for fixer, converted to the volume of working solution I use, multiplied by a safety factor of 2/3.

I also do clip tests every time I fix film.

Whenever the learing time has doubled from fresh, or I reach my self-imposed capacity limit (whatever happens first) I mix up a new batch, and designate my old batch for delivery to my friends' silver recovery bin.

pentaxuser · Aug 10, 2015

jeffreythree said:
I realize now where I may have been confusing, or confused. I am working with Freestyle's Arista Premium Odorless Fixer powder, not liquid, with a 1 gallon working solution. The 1 gallon has fixed 14 36 exposure 35mm or 120 roll films.

I take it you mixed the Arista powder and are using it exactly according to all the instructions given and at 14 films you haven't reached the film capacity that Arista allows?

If the answer is Yes to these questions I'd contact Arista as it would sound as if this stuff works OK( I am assuming no problems with early films) but doesn't have the capacity that Arista says it does.

pentaxuser

Xmas · Aug 10, 2015

pentaxuser said:
I take it you mixed the Arista powder and are using it exactly according to all the instructions given and at 14 films you haven't reached the film capacity that Arista allows?

If the answer is Yes to these questions I'd contact Arista as it would sound as if this stuff works OK( I am assuming no problems with early films) but doesn't have the capacity that Arista says it does.

pentaxuser

Fixing time is temperature and exhaustion dependent, 7 minutes for TMAX seems short?
I always fix by inspection.

Xmas · Aug 10, 2015

TMAX in fresh sodium thiosulphate @ 20c takes 4-5 minutes to clear so using 10 minutes as a fix time is way risky.

The sodium thio... is

Exhaustion
Temperature &
concentration dependent

Over fixing is safer than snatching?

YMMV

RalphLambrecht · Aug 11, 2015

jeffreythree said:
I wanted to confirm this brownish stain is probably not enough fixing or exhausted fixer(or both) since I am pretty new to this and still on my first batch of fixer. Specifics are expired in '05 TMAX 400 120 film developed in Diafine(3 min A, 3 min B), water stop bath, fixed for 7 minutes with Arista Odorless Fixer, and rinsed with a modified Ilford inversion method(5, 10, 15, 20).

happened to me when the fixer volume wasn't quite enough to wet the entire roll in the tank.refix and it will clear

RalphLambrecht · Aug 11, 2015

jeffreythree said:
I put it back in the fixer and the edges were clear when checked at 1 minute. No purple either after rewashing. I think I will start over with some fresh fixer next roll. Lesson learned on testing each time. One extra question. How many rolls can your average fixer last? When I first started buying chemicals the opinion was odorless did not last as long as regular rapid fixers and would only last for 20 rolls. If it is only 4 rolls as pentaxuser suggests, fixing would get expensive real quick (~$1.50 a roll with the cheap stuff).

after having ruined a few negatives with exhausted fixer,I switched to two-bath fixing and consider fixer for single shot only,especially with Tmax.try it and reduce you fixer cost by mixing your own.It's not hard at all

Tom Kershaw · Aug 11, 2015

I use Kodak T-max roll films and fix with a 1+4 dilution one-shot solution of rapid fix for the most part; no problems with pink negatives as sometimes experienced in the past with reusing fixer solutions.

Tom

Brownish stain on edge of TMAX 400 120 negatives

jeffreythree

Kevin Harding

pentaxuser

jeffreythree

Attachments

Sirius Glass

pentaxuser

bdial

Sirius Glass

Peter Schrager

jeffreythree

dreamingartemis

jeffreythree

bdial

jeffreythree

MattKing

Moderator

pentaxuser

Xmas

Xmas

RalphLambrecht

RalphLambrecht

Tom Kershaw

Brownish stain on edge of TMAX 400 120 negatives

Attachments

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency