Brownie Hawkeye with Kodacolor-X C-22 Process

Fredrick Van Atta · Feb 15, 2016

I bought two vintage cameras on Saturday. One was the brownie with exposed film inside, it is a 620 color negative specifying a C-22 process. Numerous posts have said I would be able to process it myself in D-76 chemistry, I use a stock solution and an Ilford fixer, are there any suggestions on developing and fixing times? Also, would I be able to spool 620 film onto a 120 developing reel? the film backing paper appears to be an exact match to a roll of 120 I put next to it, though the 620 spool length is a touch shorter, it can't be more than a mm or two. My other option, and first instinct, is to take the film to my Pro Lab and have it sent out to a specialty processor in hopes of best preserving what images might be remaining on the film.

Also, stamped into the metal inside the camera body it says "Do Not Use 120 Film" but the Brownie Hawkeye site my GF searched said it was possible, and even without respooling the 120 film. Again, the only difference I can see is a slight variation in the spool size, is it significant enough to disrupt the cameras function?

Prof_Pixel · Feb 15, 2016

120 film and 620 film are the same size.

The difference is in the spool. In most cases, you can feed film from a 120 spool in a 620 camera but the take-up spool must be a 620 spool.

MattKing · Feb 15, 2016

Welcome to APUG.

620 film and its backing paper are identical to 120. The spools for 620 film are smaller, and the spool ends have different hole patterns.

As a result, most 120 film spools either won't fit into a 620 camera, or won't wind properly, or both.

In some cases, you can use a 120 roll on the feed side, and a 620 spool on the take-up side.

In some cases, cameras can be easily modified to allow 120 on the feed side.

Many people re-spool 120 film and backing paper on to 620 spools in order to use it in 620 cameras. There are a few tricks to doing so, so research how before you try it.

Make sure you keep your 620 spools!

I cannot help on the C-22 questions.

Fredrick Van Atta · Feb 15, 2016

MattKing said:
Welcome to APUG.

620 film and its backing paper are identical to 120. The spools for 620 film are smaller, and the spool ends have different hole patterns.

As a result, most 120 film spools either won't fit into a 620 camera, or won't wind properly, or both.

In some cases, you can use a 120 roll on the feed side, and a 620 spool on the take-up side.

In some cases, cameras can be easily modified to allow 120 on the feed side.

Many people re-spool 120 film and backing paper on to 620 spools in order to use it in 620 cameras. There are a few tricks to doing so, so research how before you try it.

Make sure you keep your 620 spools!

I cannot help on the C-22 questions.

Thank you! luckily I have a take up spool and a spare. I will begin experimenting this weekend!

Fredrick Van Atta · Feb 15, 2016

Prof_Pixel said:
120 film and 620 film are the same size.

The difference is in the spool. In most cases, you can feed film from a 120 spool in a 620 camera but the take-up spool must be a 620 spool.

Thanks! I appreciate it!

wblynch · Feb 16, 2016

Fredrick Van Atta said:
I bought two vintage cameras on Saturday. One was the brownie with exposed film inside, it is a 620 color negative specifying a C-22 process. Numerous posts have said I would be able to process it myself in D-76 chemistry, I use a stock solution and an Ilford fixer, are there any suggestions on developing and fixing times?.

Process in cold C-41 for 22 minutes. Then 12-16 minutes in the blix (also cold).

Don't use C-41 temperatures or you'll melt the emulsion right off the substrate.

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 16, 2016

Fredrick Van Atta said:
Also, stamped into the metal inside the camera body it says "Do Not Use 120 Film" but the Brownie Hawkeye site my GF searched said it was possible, and even without respooling the 120 film. Again, the only difference I can see is a slight variation in the spool size, is it significant enough to disrupt the cameras function?

If your Hawkeye is one of this type (but a non-flash model, with a metal, not plastic, film winding knob), then those earlier versions will allow direct use of 120 film and reels.

I know this because that's what I do with mine. I read somewhere that Kodak eventually modified the mechanism to physically prevent this 120-for-620 swapping, but I do not know for a fact that is true as I don't own a later version.

If you feel the need to experiment, I could send you a 120 reel that has the backing paper only (no film) wound on it. Probably 3 days from Seattle to San Antonio. You could test the film feed path if you like. For some anal reason I seem to save all of my 120 reels with the paper. I can't figure out why...

Ken

hsandler · Feb 16, 2016

To your original question about spooling onto 120 developing reels, no issues at all. The film itself is identical to 120. Others have addressed the issue of how to load 120 film into 620 cameras. In my case, I have a Kodak Tourist, which would require filing and grinding of metal bits in the camera in order to use 120 spools. I don't have good tools to do that, so I just got two 620 spools, and I wind 120 film onto one in a dark closet. There are how-to videos on youtube to teach you. It is not too difficult. Another option that I don't think has been mentioned is filing and cutting the plastic 120 spool with the film on it to 620 size. I have not done it myself, but I know how-tos are out there involving simple things like nail clippers and sand paper.

Fredrick Van Atta · Feb 16, 2016

Ken Nadvornick said:
If your Hawkeye is one of this type (but a non-flash model, with a metal, not plastic, film winding knob), then those earlier versions will allow direct use of 120 film and reels.

I know this because that's what I do with mine. I read somewhere that Kodak eventually modified the mechanism to physically prevent this 120-for-620 swapping, but I do not know for a fact that is true as I don't own a later version.

If you feel the need to experiment, I could send you a 120 reel that has the backing paper only (no film) wound on it. Probably 3 days from Seattle to San Antonio. You could test the film feed path if you like. For some anal reason I seem to save all of my 120 reels with the paper. I can't figure out why...

Ken

Thanks Ken, I shoot a lot of 120 myself since I was loaned my first Holga 120N, I now own two lol, I bought a spare when I heard the factory shut down, and now have a Diana F+ which my partner bought me on Valentines, add this Brownie I found and I'll be having some parties! I bought her an Ikimono 110 with a couple rolls of film (Lomo's Peacock Blue and Lobster RedScale), she initially looked at it with this WTF expression on her face... it took her a day or two but she loves it! she calls it her spy camera.

I am able to feed 120 but need the 620 for a take up spool. luckily the camera came with two, lol. it's mildly restricting but whatev's, I'm not in the habit of throwing out spools either and I develop quite frequently at home.

Gerald C Koch · Feb 16, 2016

If it is the Brownie Hawkeye that I am thinking of (the bakelite one) then you can indeed use 120 film in it. However you must have a 620 takeup spool to do this. I have done this a number of times. Just advance the film slowly.

Fredrick Van Atta · Feb 19, 2016

My first roll of film shot through this lens, HP5, my developer, D-76, was shot, would that make it a pull process, underdeveloped? and I miscalculated the amount needed for a new canister, a stainless steel loaner, I poured 11 ounces instead of 14... lol, I'm really happy with it though. This is a digital scan of an analog negative.

studiocarter · Feb 20, 2016

Nice effect. Was this cropped?
My 3rd Hawkeye camera arrived today. I got all excited and bid on one, then won it. Oh well. At least this one is not broken anywhere, the body is perfect. That's rare. There are so many videos and web pages on how to clean and fix these things that I just had to try to do it. It is easy. And I added my own video to the Tube on how to patch the Bakelite. Auto body putty.

Fredrick Van Atta · Feb 20, 2016

studiocarter said:
Nice effect. Was this cropped?
My 3rd Hawkeye camera arrived today. I got all excited and bid on one, then won it. Oh well. At least this one is not broken anywhere, the body is perfect. That's rare. There are so many videos and web pages on how to clean and fix these things that I just had to try to do it. It is easy. And I added my own video to the Tube on how to patch the Bakelite. Auto body putty.

This is the full image. pre-crop. I was able to shoot the entire frame!

Fredrick Van Atta · Feb 20, 2016

This is another image I am happy with

Jeff Bradford · Feb 21, 2016

Some Brownie Hawkeyes will take a 120 spool, but it is very tight. Others just won't allow it. Are there some that will load 120 easily? Maybe I should buy a few more to find out?

studiocarter · Feb 22, 2016

The 3 I have, non flash with metal winders, all load 120 but require 620 take up spools.

studiocarter · Feb 22, 2016

Only one of the three cameras came to me without any pieces broken off of them.

Brownie Hawkeye with Kodacolor-X C-22 Process

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