Brooken Lens Mamiya Super 23?

[jaimeb82]

New to MF and film in general. I have a Mamiya RB67 and decided to expand my collection with another MF 6x9 this time.

After a month or so on ebay my Super 23 arrived today. I am not sure if the lens is in good working condition, I have never seen a lens like that anyway.

Lens is a 65mm 1:6.3

I follow instructions on manual:

1.- turn the sutter speed dial to "B"
2.-Cock the shutter
3.-Pull the time lever knob outward, and the shutter will remain open. Depress the time lever knob to close the shutter.

After doing all that, I am looking to the lens glass and nothing seems to be moving at all inside the lens. Nothing opens, nothing closes, basically no light going through the lens.

Did I buy a good body with a broken lens?

Is there a magic click I need to touch?

I have dismounted the lens and seems that nothing moves when I move the aperture up and down. Nothing moves either when I manually depress the lever knob to close the shutter. Did I just got a defective lens?

 

[geoferrell]

I've not used that particular lens, but it works two fold. First try putting the shutter speed at 1/60th a second and then slide the shutter lever over to cock the shutter. Then there is a manual release knob that is somewhat small. Gently move that release and the lens shutter should click. If you have the lens off the camera you can then cock the shutter, hold the lens up to a light, then trip the shutter and you should see light thru the lens. The only other thing I can think of is that most of these cameras have a grip with shutter release and cable that is rotated into the lens that will release the shutter by using the grip.

 

[archphoto]

Sorry, but if the glass parts are OK, it's a broken shutter, it could need some CLA.

 

[jaimeb82]

What is CLA ? I am guessing repairing from camera shop?

 

[Katier]

yeah - Clean Lube and adjust - basically a service

 

[archphoto]

Clean, Lube and Adjust and yes, if you are not into it, it means a good repairman.

But try to cock and release the shutter first at diferent shutterspeeds. This can be done with the lens off the camera.

 

[mgb74]

If you've cocked the lens and it doesn't fire, then it's repair time. A number of places to repair; 2 excellent sources for repair are Paul Ebel in WI and Carol Flutot in CA.

Good news is that the 65mm is a desirable lens and worth repair. Bad news is that if it has the Seikosha shutter (and I believe it does) then parts may not be available unless salvaged from another lens.

 

[jaimeb82]

the thing is that it does fire, well let me define what I understand by fire, I am probably wrong. I Cock the shutter by moving the shutter cocking lever and the lever stays in that position. Then I release the shutter either with the shutter release trigger from the handler or by tripping the shutter release lever. When I do that the shutter cocking lever moves back to starting position.

That being said, the mechanism made of metal leafs (each of a different size) inside of the glass doesn't open or closes when I cock and release.

I also noticed that the aperture opens and closes fine as I move the f/stops from 6.3 to 32.

I am starting to thing the metal wall (no idea of how to call that) that I can see right behind the front glass of the lens is source of jammed in a way, kind of stuck, just need to open and put it in place?

The seller from ebay is not answering my emails at all, she stated the camera and the lens were mechanically inspected and in working condition. Do you think I can claim some of the cash to PayPal?

 

[mgb74]

Sounds like the shutter is defective. Could be as simple as being gummed up from lack of use - but given that the shutter trips without opening the blades I don't think so. Or a spring or screw coming "undone". Or it could be unrepairable. Only someone knowledgeable about repair of leaf shutters will know for sure. Sometimes squirting lighter fluid into the slot where you cock the shutter will be a temporary fix if it is simply "gummed up" (I would not do this until you're sure you are going to keep the lens).

As to recourse back to the seller, you can try. If someone told me a lens was "mechanically inspected and in working condition" I would expect the shutter to be working with at least approximately correct speeds.

On the flip side, this is a fairly old lens (though still desirable) and reasonable to expect that a CLA would be required at some point in the near future unless the seller claimed that it was done recently. Depending on what you paid for the camera and lens, and assuming a CLA will correct the problem, you might want to negotiate for say 1/2 the cost of a CLA.

At the risk of telling you what you already know, there is another thing to consider. Did you also get the accessory viewfinder for the 65mm? The viewfinder in the Super 23 does not cover the field of view of the 65mm. So, using the integral viewfinder/rangefinder in the Super 23, you will only see a portion of what the lens will capture. I don't know if this is an issue for you or not.

 

[jaimeb82]

I am going to stop by a camera shop near my house for a first opinion, while the seller won't reply to my emails I see really hard to get anything from her. I paid for the camera December 20th and arrived home two days ago, between that time I emailed her about 5 times and only one reply on my first email, after that it was like she vanished.

It came with the gray older 65mm Finder that you connect on top, I saw someone commenting it is not 100% accurate, but at this point I've decided to go with that finder and don't go crazy about the corners of my compositions (If I only could take pictures at this point).

I have my eye on a 100mm 3.5 as well on ebay, it just sucks loosing a lens even if it is not really expensive, well answering mgb74 question I saw that 65mm lens on ebay for $120, that's about half of what I paid for (Camera,lens,back,finder) So I am loosing $120 and then I have to repair the lens.

I am going right now to the repair shop and will get back with an estimate. I was also thinking about using official Mamiya repair services. I will keep you post it.

Thanks for the guidance in general,

J-

 

[jaimeb82]

Ok, I went into a repair camera shop that looks kind of professional, I guess they just do newer models now days, and the first thing the guy did was smiling at the camera and asked me what planet did I come from. I guess the good guys don't work on Saturday!

After that he looked for a Mamiya phone number.

 

[TenOx]

Do not squirt anything into your lens. That is silly and probably destructive.
The metal wall behind the lens is called the 'shutter'. It must open and close
to make your timed exposure. Hold the lens in front of a light and trip the
cocked shutter. Observe if you get a brief flash of light visible through the
lens. If not, definitely take it for inspection and possible repair.

/..

 

[2F/2F]

There should be:

1. A shutter cocking lever
2. A shutter release ("trip") lever
3. A pin right above the shutter release that moves to trip the shutter via the left hand trigger grip
4. A manual switch to open and close the shutter for ground glass viewing (or T exposures). This is what the instructions you posted are talking about.
5. An aperture selector lever

Are you sure that you have not got number four engaged (pulled out)? If you did, the shutter would be open no matter what you do with anything else.

This is not the camera to devote important film to if you do not even know what a leaf shutter is yet. It is 100% manual without a single interlock. It is just like a large format camera except for the film it takes. You must cock the shutter after each shot. This is true of all cameras, however on this camera everything is not taken care of simply by advancing the film, like with a 35mm SLR. In other words, you have a steep learning curve ahead of you before using the thing on an important shoot. However, once you learn how to use the camera, you will understand all cameras better, and have superb results. I suggest a basic photography book like "Photography" by London and Upton, or "the Camera" by Ansel Adams, and also an invaluable book called "Mamiya Systems Handbook", by Robb Smith. It is a great book covering Mamiya twin lens, Press, and RB systems, plus has sections on general photographic basics.

I was i the same boat as you, as a Super 23 and a Graphic View II were my first cameras other than 35mm, shortly after I started shooting. I understood the mechanics of operating a manual leaf shutter from using the GVII, but my big mistake was that I started shooting with my 100mm lens in the collapsed position, which is where it should be if you are using the camera's rear movements, and at no other time. I figured that the rangefinder was way off, so spent $140 to give the camera a CLA that it didn't need. DUH!!!

Oh yeah. To advance the film, you must first hit the release switch of the advance lever. Then (very important), you must know that one stroke of the advance lever will not advance the entire frame. you have to keep advancing until it stops. The film transport is in NO WAY connected to the shutter like with a 35mm SLR, so if you do not advance the film all the way, you can shoot over what you just shot, and then two shots are toast.

 

[firecracker]

I have my eye on a 100mm 3.5 as well on ebay, it just sucks loosing a lens even if it is not really expensive, well answering mgb74 question I saw that 65mm lens on ebay for $120, that's about half of what I paid for (Camera,lens,back,finder) So I am loosing $120 and then I have to repair the lens.

When I see the online acution (Yahoo Japan) Mamiya Press series always seems to sell cheap as a kit, but then to look for a certain single item, lens or folder, you won't see anything as cheap for some reason...