Bronnie vs Hassy - B&W only - What do I lose?

jmooney · Oct 29, 2007

I've set my sights on a 6x6 system. My inclination is to Hasselblad but the Bronica is well respected system as well. I'm looking at Hassy C lenses and Bronica PS lenses and they'll be used solely for B&W with most of my work being nature and landscape subjects.

I'm planning on a 50/80/150 kit. Adding a 60 at a later time.

I like the fact that the Hassy is mechanical but I'm not against electronic cams. What do I give up from the Hassy if I go with the Bronica? I'm mainly concerned with contrast and sharpness but are there any functional issues that might pop up as well?

Thanks for you input. I've only been an active reader of this community for a short time but I have learned so much and I'm glad to be a part of it.

Take care,

Jim

RoBBo · Oct 30, 2007

You give up it being mechanical, that's really about it.
Functionally, other than the fact that you're dead without batteries, I find my bronica much more capable than any of the Hasselblads I've used (Just 500s and 501s).
Contrast and Sharpness are for the most part indistinguishable.
The Bronica PS line of lenses are amazing.
There are never funny locking issues.
The advancing in the backs is always very consistant with near perfect spacing, even in the older backs.
MLU is easy to use, multiple exposures are easy (but not accidental).
You also gain the ability to use TTL flash and aperture priority metering through a prism.
Nothing to lose except for pretty chrome and operation without a battery.

reggie · Oct 30, 2007

jmooney said:
I've set my sights on a 6x6 system. My inclination is to Hasselblad but the Bronica is well respected system as well. I'm looking at Hassy C lenses and Bronica PS lenses and they'll be used solely for B&W with most of my work being nature and landscape subjects.

I'm planning on a 50/80/150 kit. Adding a 60 at a later time.

I like the fact that the Hassy is mechanical but I'm not against electronic cams. What do I give up from the Hassy if I go with the Bronica? I'm mainly concerned with contrast and sharpness but are there any functional issues that might pop up as well?

Thanks for you input. I've only been an active reader of this community for a short time but I have learned so much and I'm glad to be a part of it.

Take care,

Jim

Because I wanted a 6x6 that would run without batteries and I used a handheld meter anyway, I bought a Bronica SQB. Fully manual which suits my needs perfectly. I don't think I could tell the difference between a picture taken with a Hasselblad C lens and a Bronica PS lens, so to me it came down getting what I wanted out of a 6x6 at the best price, so I went with the SQB and it's just what I wanted.

-R

copake_ham · Oct 30, 2007

I have both a Bronica 6x4.5 system and a Hassey CX-series.

What you "lose" with the Bronny is nothing more than the CZ lenses of the Hassey system (i.e. only a real Hassey fanatic would argue about the quality of simple light tight boxes with hand crank film advance mechanisms matter).

If you want to pay for German glass then you should go with a Hassey. If you consider the Japanese glass to be as good as German - then go with the Bronica.

Does that matter?

I'm not certain it does; but it can lead to "flame wars" to an extraordinary degree to point this out.

Such "wars" will include the superiority of glass that can involve historical, ethnic, racial and technological points of contention - to name just a few.

So, have fun reading the answers you get here.

You also might want to do a thread search here for other info and opinions - of which there are many.

pelerin · Oct 30, 2007

jmooney said:
I've set my sights on a 6x6 system. My inclination is to Hasselblad but the Bronica is well respected system as well. I'm looking at Hassy C lenses and Bronica PS lenses and they'll be used solely for B&W with most of my work being nature and landscape subjects.

I'm planning on a 50/80/150 kit. Adding a 60 at a later time.

I like the fact that the Hassy is mechanical but I'm not against electronic cams. What do I give up from the Hassy if I go with the Bronica? I'm mainly concerned with contrast and sharpness but are there any functional issues that might pop up as well?

Thanks for you input. I've only been an active reader of this community for a short time but I have learned so much and I'm glad to be a part of it.

Take care,

Jim

Hi,
As someone already mentioned brand comparisons are sure to get the folks excited. One area to investigate, if you plan to keep and use the system well into the future, is the availability of parts and service for whatever make and model you chose. My experience is that there are more repair options for Hasselblad (i.e., independent technicians).
Celac.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Oct 30, 2007

Rental may also be a point to consider: if you travel and suddenly break a lens, does it matter to you whether you can find a dealer with a spare one to rent for a day? In some situations, it doesn't matter (e.g. 6 month trekking in Central Asia...), but rental is also a good means to use the amazing lenses you don't need often, and can't justify buying.

Willie Jan · Oct 30, 2007

I have had several medium format systems such as pentax 645nii,pentax 67, bronica s2a (old...).
Now i bought a hassy 500cm with 80/150/250. I never believed the stories about the hassy lenses, until i made a comparison between my pentax 645 and hassy. It just looks better for me.... I can't tell if it is the sharpness, dof or both. It is just different and I like it.

Best would be to have several cameras besides each other and make the same pics, and afterwards see how they differ.

David Henderson · Oct 30, 2007

I've used Bronica for a decade and for a short while Hasselblad UK lent me a 501CM and lenses which I used alongside the Bronica, to persuade me to convert. Frankly I couldn't see enough difference in the photographs to make the move worthwhile.

Which is not to say that there aren't some factors you ought to think about.

The Bronica is to my mind more intuitive to use and won't jam so easily if you get sequencing wrong.

The point about repair availability above is probably valid. And there's another angle to it- it will be a lot better if you have a repair centre for your chosen brand convenient to your home. If that applies to one rather than the other then that would be enough to swing it for me, and my commitment to Bronica is not entirely divorced from the fact that the main UK repair centre is a fifteen minute drive away so I can meet the people doing the work and demonstrate a problem.

That said I think the average Hasselblad might suffer fewer reliability problems than the average Bronica of the same age. But note that I'm saying "average" and there will be troublesome Hasselblads just like unreliable Bronicas. It all depends on the precise example you buy and again, if I could find a camera with a known history of trouble free, steady but not hard use, then that would weigh heavily on my brand choice.

You'll save a lot of money buying a Bronica - or alternatively you'll get a lot newer camera/lenses for your money.

I'm personally not convinced by the "no battery" argument. It isn't hard to keep a spare set of LR44 in the bag and I've never found conditions that have made the batteries fail to function.

The name on the front matters a lot to some people. If you're the sort of person who will always have a thought at the back of your mind that a decision in favour of Bronica is a decision for second-best then get the Hasselblad now and enjoy it.

matti · Oct 30, 2007

I find it hard to only go with reason in things like this. I have neither the Bronica or Hasselblad but personally, i would like to own a Hasselblad some day. I just like the look of it and don't have to convince myself with reason. (If I was to go with reason I would shoot digital, and how fun would that be?)

/matti

Nathan Smith · Oct 30, 2007

matti said:
... (If I was to go with reason I would shoot digital, and how fun would that be?)

/matti

Oh Matti, now you've done it.

Nathan

matti · Oct 30, 2007

Nathan Smith said:
Oh Matti, now you've done it.

Nathan

Oops, compared the Bronica to digital, sorry about that . Let's take another example: If I was all into reason I wouldn't have paddled my kayak to work in the summer and walked the ice in the winter when we lived on an island.

/matti

blaze-on · Oct 30, 2007

I have both...recently shooting a wedding with the Bronica..the crank handle on the back I was using fell off..it's a bitch when under pressure to wind that sucker without one..

Then, shooting the Hassy up in Bodie I noiticed the slide was going in kinda stiff and heard paper crunching...thought it was loose film but the back seal came loose from the side of the film back and laid across 4-5 images...nice white strip.

So, both are fallible to age concerns, both will take the pictures you want.
Bronica is more user friendly, Hassy makes a cool sound.

Huge enlargements may show a discernible quality difference in the glass, but I wouldn't know...

Either/Or

DaveOttawa · Oct 30, 2007

jmooney said:
...
I'm planning on a 50/80/150 kit. Adding a 60 at a later time.

I like the fact that the Hassy is mechanical but I'm not against electronic cams.
...

Assuming you only need the basics as described you will save a lot of money you can put towards film, carbon tripod, travel etc with the Bronica. You will find there are some accessories etc for Hassleblad that aren't made for Bronica and that Bronica is less abundant in the s/h market - but there isn't exactly a shortage.

I have the SQB and 50/80/180. Got the 180 because the 150 was not a tight enough field of view for me and the 180 focuses closer. 180 is much less common and more $$ though.

I've never quite understood the objection to a camera that requires a few small batteries - given that you have to carry all that 120 film with you anyway what is the problem wit taking some batteries too?

Willie Jan · Oct 31, 2007

DaveOttawa said:
I've never quite understood the objection to a camera that requires a few small batteries - given that you have to carry all that 120 film with you anyway what is the problem wit taking some batteries too?

I do not think it's the weight, but the problem that their is electronica inside that can fail easier than mechanical suddenly due to temperature,water, shaking....

matti · Oct 31, 2007

I find electronics failure especially irritating, for some reason. When I dropped my Rolleiflex or dropped a tree on my mechanical Bessa R2, I understood what had happened. But when my electronic shuttered Mamiya 645 just didn't click sometimes when the temperature went under 10 deg C, and of course the repairman couldn't repeat the problem, I just returned the camera.
/matti

Leon · Oct 31, 2007

reggie said:
Because I wanted a 6x6 that would run without batteries and I used a handheld meter anyway, I bought a Bronica SQB. Fully manual which suits my needs perfectly. I don't think I could tell the difference between a picture taken with a Hasselblad C lens and a Bronica PS lens, so to me it came down getting what I wanted out of a 6x6 at the best price, so I went with the SQB and it's just what I wanted.

-R

The sqb shutter is powered by battery so it still needs these to work. I think it defaults to 1/125ish when the battery dies, so I guess it is still usable, just about.

randyB · Oct 31, 2007

Back in 1981 I tested blad 500cm, Bronica Sq, Mamiya RB67, Mamiya M1000 645 against each other, all with the standard lens ( 80-90 ) and wide angle ( 50-65). All photos shot on the same afternoon, all processed on the the same day, all tripod mounted. Blad won hands down, better sharpness, contrast, Bronica was 2nd good but definately not up to Zeiss standards, RB67 3rd, Mamiya 645 last. I used the same film, Plus-X Pro same dev D-76. Even though the Bronica was considerably cheaper I went with the 500cm, I've been very happy with my system. You might try doing your own tests, modern films are much better than 80's films. My two cents. RandyB

Usagi · Oct 31, 2007

Back in 1981 Bronica has only S lenses, not PS lenses which are better.
I own one S serie lens and couple of PS serie and difference in contrast and flare sensibility is really huge.

jmooney · Oct 31, 2007

randyB said:
Back in 1981 I tested blad 500cm, Bronica Sq, Mamiya RB67, Mamiya M1000 645 against each other, all with the standard lens ( 80-90 ) and wide angle ( 50-65). All photos shot on the same afternoon, all processed on the the same day, all tripod mounted. Blad won hands down, better sharpness, contrast, Bronica was 2nd good but definately not up to Zeiss ...

Hi Randy,

Which series of lenses were the ones that you tested on the 'Blad and the Bronnie?

Thanks,

Jim

Rob_5419 · Oct 31, 2007

My inclination is to Hasselblad but the Bronica is well respected system as well. I'm looking at Hassy C lenses and Bronica PS lenses and they'll be used solely for B&W with most of my work being nature and landscape subjects.

The superiority of the T* Zeiss lenses is far less important in monochrome work. If you aren't shooting colour, then the colour difference of the lenses won't matter. Most Hassy C lenses had T* coatings (except early types e.g. 50mm C Distagon).

I'm planning on a 50/80/150 kit. Adding a 60 at a later time.

Look at the price difference for a Bronica Sq kit (newer) than a Hasselblad kit..

I like the fact that the Hassy is mechanical but I'm not against electronic cams. What do I give up from the Hassy if I go with the Bronica? I'm mainly concerned with contrast and sharpness but are there any functional issues that might pop up as well?

1. Electronic quartz shutter precision of the Bronica
2. You give up the irritating lack of time shutter from 16 seconds - 1
seconds. The Hasselblad has a 1 second maximum shutter speed whereas
the Bronica has time control up to 16 seconds, a B and a T setting.
3. The jamming Hasselblad lenses every other time you use an extension ring - true - the Bronica's Sq has never jammed.
4. C lenses are less sharp in the corners than later PS lenses. Unless you
shoot with the CFi lenses, you will be really pushed to notice even corner
differences at huge enlargement factors between Bronica Sq and
Hasselblad C lenses.
5. Film back engagment with the Hasselblads: with older backs, sometimes
the shutter locks and won't fire because of alignment issues with older
backs. A CLA may be required. Never experienced that with any Bronica
due to its innovative film back design (well...innovative 25 years ago..)
6. You give up the crappy Hasselblad multiple exposure technique which
requires the film back to be moved before you wind on the shutter, and
then replace the back, guaranteeing that you will have moved the film
image plane in that movement. The Bronica's mechanism is swifter and
neat.
7.You also give up the prestige of working with a Hasselblad.

No.7 is probably the subconscious reason why I still shoot with a Hasselblad and not a Bronica over the past 20 years. The Bronica Sq is a superior and more user-friendly 6x6cm format camera system in every aspect for black and white work; for the budget; for the practicality and reliability.

Still, I shoot with a Hasselblad. Just can't reason with older people who are set in their ways

Matt5791 · Oct 31, 2007

I recently dropped my 500C/M off a wall and it fell 30ft onto hard ground and the odd brick.

Yes, there was considerable damage - the 250mm sonnar lens actually broke off the camera body; the film magazine looked decidely different and the WLF was completely broken off.

However with a different lens (the mount on the body was fine) and mag. it still worked, in a manner.

I know this is extreme, but I considered Bronica before going with Hasselblad and one of the reasons I went with the Hasselblad was becasue it just felt a lot stronger and a lot more resiliant to every day use.

Whether it is or not I don't know - it just feels that way.

Willie Jan · Oct 31, 2007

The result is what counts.
The way how you got there is another thing.

PHOTOTONE · Oct 31, 2007

Something that hasn't been mentioned here. Any, and I mean ANY camera that has electronic functions, rather than mechanical functions will need servicing of the electronics eventually. It is a fact of life that capacitors, which are used in timing circuits in cameras, fail. This is component level electronic repair. Repair centers are used to repairing by replacing sub-assemblies, rather than diagnosing and replacing individual electronic parts. When the supply of repair parts dries up, without concise electronic schematics, individual component diagnosis and replacement becomes next to impossible, and the average camera technician does not have the training to do this anyway. For the long haul, it is wiser to choose a mechanical camera. I am not suggesting brands here, as most medium-format camera brands have had all mechanical models.

Nokton48 · Nov 3, 2007

Something that hasn't been mentioned here. Any, and I mean ANY camera that has electronic functions, rather than mechanical functions will need servicing of the electronics eventually. It is a fact of life that capacitors, which are used in timing circuits in cameras, fail. This is component level electronic repair. Repair centers are used to repairing by replacing sub-assemblies, rather than diagnosing and replacing individual electronic parts. When the supply of repair parts dries up, without concise electronic schematics, individual component diagnosis and replacement becomes next to impossible, and the average camera technician does not have the training to do this anyway. For the long haul, it is wiser to choose a mechanical camera. I am not suggesting brands here, as most medium-format camera brands have had all mechanical models.
__________________
Phototone

I want to second this sentiment. I know, that even though I paid more for my "blad system (I have just about 50% of all the available accesories), I -KNOW- that I will always be able to get it repaired. Maybe not by Hasselblad USA, but by -just about- any competant reapir shops. Right now, everybody has plenty of spare parts. And, there are plenty of broken cameras around to be canibalized. That is what David Odess did for me, when my (new to me) 150mm Sonnar (from Adorama Ebay) had a broken rear mount. Turning the focus ring would fire the shutter He cannibalized one from a "parts" lens, so now, mine is as good as new.

Point is, more 'blads (and parts) are around, than any other system. This may or may not be important to you. It is to me, for the long haul.

-Dan

Lee J · Nov 3, 2007

The 200* series bodies and their faster lenses are the only compelling reasons to buy into a 'blad system over the Bronica (discounting digital backs). All other points are moot.

Bronnie vs Hassy - B&W only - What do I lose?

Membership Council

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency