Bronica SQ-B Shutter Problem

[GGfpc]

Hello! I recently bought a Bronica SQ-B on ebay and when it arrived it seemed to work fine.

I wasn't able to test it with film, but when I tried to wind the film advance lever in single exposure mode it would lock as it is supposed to, and when I moved it to multiple exposure mode I was able to check that the shutter worked in every speed and that the mirror goes up and down.

I set it aside for a while and when I tried to pick it up again I found a new issue. When I try to wind the the film advance lever it just goes around and around without stopping and the shutter button can be depressed but it won't fire. The strangest thing is that when I set the camera to continuous mirror lockup mode, it works fine. I can also remove the lens which indicates the shutter is cocked.

Has anyone dealt with this problem before?
Tanks

 

[neilt3]

Have you put a test roll of film in it and a fresh battery ?
Do that before fault finding .
I always use a scrap roll of film that I keep for testing a new camera , both 120 and 135 .

 

[M-88]

Bronica has a lot of foolproof failsafes. What you describe is a common case: it won't wind or fire without the loaded film.

 

[GGfpc]

Yes I tested it with new batteries, but without film. I have some Fomapan I can sacrifice, but the key here is that there was a regression between my first test where everything worked and later tests where it only works with continuous mirror lockup so I would be surprised if putting film in made any difference

 

[GGfpc]

Bronica has a lot of foolproof failsafes. What you describe is a common case: it won't wind or fire without the loaded film.

It should work in multiple exposure mode if I recall correctly.

 

[grain elevator]

Most medium format cameras do this sort of thing to wind up a finished roll of film and will reset to normal winding operation when loaded with film, with a back re-attached or the counter zeroed in other ways. I'm sure the manual will have something to say.

 

[M-88]

It should work in multiple exposure mode if I recall correctly.

That is correct. Doesn't it work in multi expo mode?

 

[GGfpc]

That is correct. Doesn't it work in multi expo mode?

The first time I tested it everything worked fine in multiple exposure mode. After leaving it alone for a while, the issues in the original post arised.
To summarize:
- In MLU N mode it winds over and over and won't activate shutter.
- In MLU C mode it works correctly.
The frame counter is set to S which is the start of the roll
Something important I just recalled is that in MLU N mode, it doesn't stop the lever or activate the shutter when pressed but the fact that I can remove the lens indicates the shutter is cocked.

 

[M-88]

Well, the shutter is cocked as long as you see the image through the viewfinder. The rest seems to check out - with MLU engaged the camera will wind and fire and with MLU disengaged, it will not. As for the frame counter, if I recall it correctly, it advances ony when there's film in it.

By the way, if you have a spare backing paper, that can fool the camera into thinking that there's film being pulled through the system.

Edit: I meant multiexpo lever, not MLU

 

[GGfpc]

Well, the shutter is cocked as long as you see the image through the viewfinder. The rest seems to check out - with MLU engaged the camera will wind and fire and with MLU disengaged, it will not. As for the frame counter, if I recall it correctly, it advances ony when there's film in it.

By the way, if you have a spare backing paper, that can fool the camera into thinking that there's film being pulled through the system.

So based on what you're saying there's nothing wrong with the camera? I'll test it with some film and see if the same happens

 

[M-88]

So based on what you're saying there's nothing wrong with the camera? I'll test it with some film and see if the same happens

I haven't had SQ, but I had ETRS ans briefly - GS-1, both of which acted in a similar fashion to what you describe. Your SQ should be good to go. Have fun - Bronicas are terrific cameras.

 

[DWThomas]

It's been a while since I played with my SQ-A, but there are two little levers -- multi-exposure, and mirror lockup. Pretty sure it's the multi exposure you need on to dry fire w/o film. The MLU simply lets the mirror up (to get the massive CLANK out of the way before the shutter is fired).

Edit: That said, there are some wild idiosyncrasies in these boxes. Best to find an SQ-B manual and read through sections 22 and 23.

 

[neilt3]

So based on what you're saying there's nothing wrong with the camera? I'll test it with some film and see if the same happens

If you want to test the camera , make sure your battery is good and load a test roll of film in it .
As I suggested in #2 .
If you don't do that , your not testing much .
Make yourself familiar with the operation of the camera by reading the manual here ; https://www.butkus.org/chinon/bronica/bronica_sq-b/bronica_sq-b.htm

When you've done that , any problems, ask again . Stating what exactly you are doing when a problem occurs .

When testing , make sure multiple exposure is off , mirror lock up is off , that you haven't set the switch on the lens to "trip" .

 

[250swb]

What you need to do is download an instruction manual.

 

[reddesert]

1. read manual
2. test with spool of backing paper if you don't want to burn film
3. mirror lockup lever shouldn't matter
4. without spool of paper or film, camera should wind on and on, it cocks the lens but does not stop or let you fire shutter unless you set multi-exposure lever to multi.
5. darkslide must be withdrawn to fire shutter
6. need fresh battery (although SQ-B fires at 1/500 without battery I think)
7. read manual

 

[GGfpc]

Thanks everyone. I did read the manual, but I'll read it again after your suggestions.

Ive also realized that my multi-expose lever is broken and is not rotating the actual knob. The knob seems to be stuck, or at least much harder to move than the MLU knob. I'm considering taking a pair of pliers and trying to rotate it into single exposure mode, but that sounds a bit drastic.
Does this sound like a common issue? Levers being stuck?

 

[reddesert]

The multi-exposure lever should rotate easily at any point in the cycle, with just a touch of resistance until it snaps into the other position. Do you mean the actual lever is broken, or that it's unscrewed from the knob or something, or just that it's not functioning? If there was no lever arm, I would consider peeling up the cover in the center and turning it gently with a screwdriver or pin spanner or whatever, but if it takes pliers-level force to turn it, then something is jammed and you'll make it worse by forcing it. It's not really clear to me whether you've been testing the camera in single or multi mode and/or running backing paper/film through it.

 

[DWThomas]

Ive also realized that my multi-expose lever is broken and is not rotating the actual knob. The knob seems to be stuck, or at least much harder to move than the MLU knob. I'm considering taking a pair of pliers and trying to rotate it into single exposure mode, but that sounds a bit drastic.
Does this sound like a common issue? Levers being stuck?

Does the lever move or is it sort of locked up? If it moves, I have heard of those little levers cracking which results in the lever moving without the attached shaft following along. I believe some may be plastic. There is normally a small round disk of leatherette glued in the center which hides a screw that anchors the lever to the shaft. The interface is a "double-D" slot in the lever with a matching shape on the shaft. The cross-section of the portion around that slot is small enough it likely won't survive much heavy handed stress.

Were I faced with one of those levers broken I would probably try to saw, drill, and file a piece of 1/16" aluminum or other material to create a substitute. (But then I occasionally experience unwarranted moments of optimism. )

 

[neilt3]

Those little plastic levered for ME aren't uncommon to be cracked .
At which point they just turn without moving the shaft .
You can get 3d printed replacement ones on eBay .

 

[GGfpc]

An update in case anyone finds this thread with the same problem

What happened was that I at some point put the camera back in single exposure mode, and when I rotated the knob to multiple exposures, it broke and the lever didn't rotate. That's why I couldn't press the shutter, like it says in the manual.

I used a pair of pliers to get more leverage in rotating the litle lever and managed to put it into single exposure mode with very little force. In the meantime I've shot and scanned a roll, so the camera seems fine mechanically.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions

 

[koraks]

Thanks for updating - that resolves the mystery! Good to know it wasn't a serious defect after all.