BRONICA SQ AI

canongary · Sep 7, 2019

not sure if this the right thread to ask,but i have the chance to buy a BRONICA SQ AI camera with 3 lenses. i only know of a 150 ps lens f4 that i can see.there are 2 others with an extension tube set.also has a handle attatched to the r/s of body with a button on it and a flash coupler.has a macablitz 60 ct-4 flash also.gentelman says uses only 220 film.i would assume i can get a 120 back for it.
also in the package is a canon EOS 10S camera and 3 ef lenses.
he just wants to get rid of it.says he has not used any of it in ages.is it worth taking a chance on it.
i dont even see 220 film being available any more??

MattKing · Sep 7, 2019

It all depends on condition.
The Bronica and lenses are excellent if in full working order.
There is no current 220 film being manufactured, and yes there were 120 (6x6 and 6 x4.5) backs for it, as well as 135 (24 x 36mm and the rare 24 x 54mm) backs for it.
The grip you describe may be either a motor grip - battery operated - or the speed grip - thumb operated. A crank is a great option as well, but in many cases the cameras with motor or speed grips don't have the crank with them.
What finder is on the camera - there were options.
The Metz 60 CT4 is a great flash, but there is a large shoulder pack for the battery, and the battery itself is both incredibly good, and significantly expensive (~$100.00 CDN) to replace. I used to be able to photograph an entire wedding on one charge of my 60 CT2's battery.
The EOS 10S was very capable in its time - almost 30 years ago - but is probably a throw in. The EF lenses are where the value lies.
Again, it all depends on condition. Check in particular that there isn't a leaked battery left anywhere.

abruzzi · Sep 7, 2019

Sure, it’s potentially a very nice camera. I have a ETRSi, which is similar , but uses the smaller 6x4.5 format.

The PS lenses are usually more desirable than the S lenses, as they were designed later, were designed with MTF in mind, and have half stop settings on the aperture (I believe). 120 backs can easily be purchased at KEH or eBay, you can occasionally find old 220 film, but it’s not worth relying on that. It is electronic, and will require a battery to properly test.

Would be worthwhile finding out what the other lenses are and what viewfinder it has. There were a number of viewfinders made for it from a waist level finder to a metered prism. If the price is good, I’d jump on it if I were you.

hsandler · Sep 7, 2019

Sounds like a good kit. You can put 120 film through the 220 back actually. I do with no issues. You can always buy a 120 back if you want. Main thing is put four SR44 batteries in and make sure the shutters in all lenses work. The winder is a good accessory. The other two lenses are probably the 50 and the 80.

canongary · Sep 7, 2019

yes it does have this huge battery pack with it.it looks like a tall prism . i have not actually seen it in person yet but he is asking me to make an offer for the complete setup.wouldnt mind having a mf camera to fool around with but that means a whole new set of circumstances from what i have now.can you actually load 35mm film in a 220 pack or are there modifications needed. sitting on a fence right now
thanks for the input

canongary · Sep 7, 2019

also from the picture i have you would use your forefinger to operate the handle

MattKing · Sep 7, 2019

Don't count on using a 220 back for 135 film. There are a couple of fun things you can do to play around with this, but you won't come close to realizing the benefit of the camera if you don't use the film it was designed for and a back appropriate for that film.
A huge portion of the value of this equipment will be in the lenses - both for the Bronica and the Canon - you need to have details before you consider an offer.
Things like focal length, version, maximum aperture, condition.

canongary · Sep 7, 2019

I'll be in contact with him tomorrow. I'll ask about the finder and lenses for both.i really want to see them both in person to evaluate but they are both new to me.he wont commit to an asking price so who knows.it may work out.it will be interesting.
Thanks for your help

mshchem · Sep 7, 2019

canongary said:
I'll be in contact with him tomorrow. I'll ask about the finder and lenses for both.i really want to see them both in person to evaluate but they are both new to me.he wont commit to an asking price so who knows.it may work out.it will be interesting.
Thanks for your help

I've used SQ-AI for years. Be careful you're not buying a conglomeration of weird parts. The appropriate AE finder is very sophisticated, low profile, adjustable diopter, spot and average metering. The dark slide is the most valuable part of the 220 backs. There's multiple generations of backs lenses etc. It's all compatible. If it comes with a winder, be prepared to pay 50 bucks on up for the original little plastic crank arm. These are great cameras, but totally electronic so repairs can be an issue.
Do your homework so you know what you are buying.

Tom Kershaw · Sep 7, 2019

In the past I had a full Bronica SQ-B system, which I've somewhat slimmed down and now mostly use for the 110mm macro. While I have no issues with the lenses, I would venture to suggest the camera bodies, wlf, film backs etc. do not feel like the most robust units.

mshchem · Sep 7, 2019

I got rid of a huge pile of Bronica stuff. I never had a single problem. I kept a nice SQ-AI, fancy metered prism, some other goodies. I re-invested in Hasselblad. It's not as "slick" as the Bronica stuff. But Hasselblad build quality is unmatched, it's all mechanical and will be repairable forever. I retired and I wanted to get back into Hasselblad, it's beautiful stuff. The Bronica stuff has worked great for me 1/4 the cost of newer Hasselblad and the lenses are awesome. Fit can ge a bit weird and plastics over metal, rather than chrome plated metal. I started with a ETRSI for my first brand new MF SLR that's a freaking great camera too.

donkee · Sep 9, 2019

I like my SQ system but if the electronics, or anything else for that matter, goes I am stuck with a brick. I am thinking when I do sell off the collection that I'll invest in a Hasselblad. I had one for a short time and loved it but at the time lenses were prohibitively expensive for me so it was sold and I concentrated on my Mamiya C-220. Now if someone knows of a place that repairs SQ gear and has parts then I would stick with the Bronica.......

halfaman · Sep 10, 2019

I own a Bronica SQ-Ai and support the comments of great quality for a fraction of the price of a Hasselblad. I have it with the AE-i prism and SQ-i motorized grip (very small and lgiht compared to others). Handling is quite nice this way for a 6x6 reflex medium format camera, even the grip is quite noisy when advancing film.

Regarding lenses I have 40 mm f/4 PS, 65 mm f/4 PS, 80 mm f/2.8 PS and 180 mm f/4.5 PS. All of them are excelent with very high image quality.

Tom Kershaw · Sep 10, 2019

halfaman said:
Regarding lenses I have 40 mm f/4 PS, 65 mm f/4 PS, 80 mm f/2.8 PS and 180 mm f/4.5 PS. All of them are excelent with very high image quality.

I've heard the 180mm f/4.5 PS is particularly good? - examples don't come up for sale very often.

halfaman · Sep 10, 2019

The 180 mm is really good, although seen rarely in second hand sites is not an expensive lens. The minimum focusing distance of 1 meter makes it even more atractive.

Two examples.

canongary · Sep 12, 2019

i have made a tentative deal for the bronica sq ai . going to see it probably this weekend.have been watching some video's on the operating this camera.i am a little confused about this , it can be dry fired without film right? i'll be picking up 4 batteries to put in it.
it does have a motor/power winder handle . i assume there is seperate batteries for this also.
i'm going on vacation soon and i dont want to lose out on this.found out there are hard cases for the camera and lenses and the flash unit has its own hard case also.i understand he was a portrait and wedding photographer , so i am assuming he really took care of this kit.
any thoughts as to what else i should look for would be appreciated
thanks again - canongary

MattKing · Sep 12, 2019

canongary said:
i understand he was a portrait and wedding photographer , so i am assuming he really took care of this kit.

Maybe yes - and maybe not at all!
If he didn't the appearance of the equipment will most likely reveal that.

jimjm · Sep 12, 2019

Yep, you can dry-fire as follows:
- remove the dark slide from the back
- flip down the multiple-exposure lever so the red dot is showing
- turn the advance crank until the mirror flips down and the crank stops. Now the camera will fire, but the lens shutter itself will not open if the batteries are dead or not installed.
Also, remember not to try attaching or removing a lens unless the camera is cocked, i.e. the mirror is down. And don't forget to flip the multiple exposure lever back up, it won't reseton it's own.

These cameras have a few quirks, but take the time to read the manual and they'll all make sense. Many of these were used by working photographers, so cosmetic condition can vary quite a bit. Unless they were seriously abused, they can be very reliable cameras.
I've had one SQ-A body for over 15 years, along with multiple lenses and backs, and never had one problem.

canongary · Sep 12, 2019

thanks for getting back to me. i hope it all works out . one thought he did say it shoots 220 film.can 110 be loaded in a 220 back or shouldnt i explore this.there does not seem to be any out there right now
thanks again
canongary

voceumana · Sep 12, 2019

The correct film size for the shorter rolls is 120, not 110. 110 is a "pocket instamatic" cartridge size.

I have not used 220 film in a 120 back, but others say this is possible. Note that you get 12 exposures of 6x6 images on 120 film; 24 on 220. The 220 film back will still think there are 12 remaining exposures at the end of the 120 film, so you'll have to shoot 12 blank exposures at the end of the roll. I suggest getting a 120 back, and I prefer the Ai backs, as if you are using a prism, the film speed setting is easier to see on the Ai backs, though there is no functional difference between the A and Ai backs; the B backs don't have film speed, so I would avoid those unless you have no plans for a metering finder (prism or chimney).

canongary · Sep 12, 2019

my bad ,youre right . sorry for the mix up . yes 120 film .if it works out i'll just look for a 120 back for it.
let you know
thanks

abruzzi · Sep 12, 2019

I’ve seen some people claim that you can run 120 through the 220 back, but if you try, you may find a few potential issues. First, the back will want to shoot 24 frames, but after 12, none of those shots will have film. So, you will have to load film, shoot 12 real shots, then shot/crank a bunch more time to get the trailing part of the backing paper out. Second, I believe the leader lengt on 220 is a little different from 120, so you may find shot 1 starts too soon or too late, either losing the first frame or losing the 12 frame. Finally, 220 is thinner since the paper ends when the film begins. It’s possible that the tolerance in the back are smaller which could scratch the 120 film, or worse, it could place undue stress on the gears of the camera or back because of increased friction.

You should be able to find a 120 back on eBay for around $75-$150 depending on condition. I would budget that into the cost you’re willing to spend. Today you really want a 120 back since 220 film is almost unobtanium.

canongary · Sep 12, 2019

abruzzi , thanks for the info as well all you guys helping me out. MF is strange to me but i cant give up this chance to get this kit. i may not even like enough to keep . it may just be a bookshelf ornament down the road.
jimjm - thanks for the follow up on dry firing the camera.appreciate it .
thanks

cdowell · Sep 13, 2019

I'm not as knowledgeable as many of the folks on this board, but if it's helpful I can say this: the Bronica SQ-Ai became my favorite go-to camera, but you want one that hasn't been beat to death. You'll be able to tell if the back fits snugly, whether there is 'give' when you use the winder, etc.

If pricing info helps: I just picked up from KEH a body with WLF (I vastly prefer waist level finders to any other / couldn't care less about metering) 80mm lens and a 120 back for $679 -- all of it was graded excellent and in great shape. Not necessarily a bargain, but I do trust KEH. For comparison, here's a hodgepodge kit at my local camera store: Bronica SQA (3 lens kit, meter prism) $600.00 (https://www.peacecamera.com/used-gear).

I wouldn't get too worked up over lots of lenses especially if you are just getting started. If you get a Bronica, I hope you enjoy it!

Luva - Co-owner, Southern Swank

cdowell
Dec 31, 2009
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canongary · Sep 14, 2019

Just an update on my getting the bronica sq ai .the seller just e-mailed me he just sold it to someone else.oh well just wasn't meant to be.I'll be on the look out for something else.at least my bad attack has been qwelled.
On to the next adventure.

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