Bronica S2A questions

geostog · Sep 28, 2013

Hello to APUG community!
I am a relatively new photographer or better a photo enthusiast. My name is George and I am from Greece.

My last purchase was a Bronica S2A. It arrived at a decent condition. I had to clean it and make some tests first.
The only problem is the most know for S2As: deterioration of foam on the focusing screen. It was cleaned and replaced, now the focusing screen is very stable.

The Nikkor 75mm it came with seems to be in a great condition. Clean and working well. Took some testing shots with it. They seem to be great, there are so light leaks, that was my fear. But the light seals on the back look like they want to be replaced. I've looked on ebay and found in several sizes, which one to pick?

Another common issue is the focusing screen. It's quite dark. I've checked the web and many users replace their screens with Kiev 88 screens. Should i do the same? Will there be any focusing problem?

Searching for accessories like extra film backs or lenses, I have difficulty finding them. Is that because there are no longer available for sale (used)? Also, only S2A backs and lenses will fit my camera? or other Bronica backs and lenses will work? (like SQ-A, ETRS etc)

I am really concerned about the mirror slap. Can that affect the image sharpness? I know all the vibration is done after the exposure but performing the coin test, that does not seems to be right for me.

As I read on the web, there are some shutter speeds that produce great results and some others that should be avoided. What would be the optimum shutter speeds for tripod use?

Thank you for your help ,
George

Trask · Sep 28, 2013

George,

I can offer views on a few of the issues you raise. I have an S2 (essentially the same as your S2A but yours has stronger gears) and an SQ-A, and no, the backs are not at all interchangeable. I'm not sure where you're looking, but I haven't found lenses particularly difficult to find, except for select lens like the 80mm f/2.4. Lenses are often available on American eBay or from individual sellers or shops. As for the screen, I personally wish I could have a split-image screen on mine. Rick Oleson (google him) sells screens that will fit your S2A. As far as I know, as long as the foam supporting the screen is installed properly and you put in the new screen (and separate fresnel lens, IIRC), then you shouldn't have any problems. As for mirror slap, well, that's just the way these camera work. I don't think there's much to be done about it. Later models like my EC-TL used a split mirror to reduce mirror slap. I've never heard anything about some shutter speeds being better than others, per se, though of course some speeds are more appropriate depending on what you're photographing. If shooting a moving cat, you might opt for 1/250 or faster; when shooting a house that isn't moving, then perhaps you'd be more concerned about depth of field and let that determine the shutter speed. If you're using a tripod, you can use any shutter speed you like; the problem comes when you are not using a tripod and want to shoot at slow speeds which might cause unwanted blur in the resulting images.

geostog · Sep 28, 2013

Trask said:
George,

I can offer views on a few of the issues you raise. I have an S2 (essentially the same as your S2A but yours has stronger gears) and an SQ-A, and no, the backs are not at all interchangeable. I'm not sure where you're looking, but I haven't found lenses particularly difficult to find, except for select lens like the 80mm f/2.4. Lenses are often available on American eBay or from individual sellers or shops. As for the screen, I personally wish I could have a split-image screen on mine. Rick Oleson (google him) sells screens that will fit your S2A. As far as I know, as long as the foam supporting the screen is installed properly and you put in the new screen (and separate fresnel lens, IIRC), then you shouldn't have any problems. As for mirror slap, well, that's just the way these camera work. I don't think there's much to be done about it. Later models like my EC-TL used a split mirror to reduce mirror slap. I've never heard anything about some shutter speeds being better than others, per se, though of course some speeds are more appropriate depending on what you're photographing. If shooting a moving cat, you might opt for 1/250 or faster; when shooting a house that isn't moving, then perhaps you'd be more concerned about depth of field and let that determine the shutter speed. If you're using a tripod, you can use any shutter speed you like; the problem comes when you are not using a tripod and want to shoot at slow speeds which might cause unwanted blur in the resulting images.

Thank you for your reply!

I am looking on UK ebay and the offer is pretty limited.

As I read, Kiev 88 screen has split image. I also checked Rick Olenson's screens and they seem to offer split image. Maybe I'll order one.

I intend to shoot most of the time with a tripod. When shooting handheld, the 35mm rule of thumb applies on medium format too? (minimum shutter speed=focal length of lens used)

Alan Gales · Sep 28, 2013

Hello George and welcome to the forum.

I have owned an S2a and several EC's. Don't worry about the mirror slap. It happens too late after the shutter to cause problems. Use any shutter speed you want while using a tripod. I don't know what you read but I have never had any problems or heard of anyone having any problems.

Early Bronica cameras, film backs and lenses used to show up often on ebay here in the United States. They have slowed but still show up occasionally. Most lenses are dirt cheap unless you are looking for a 40mm Nikkor or a lens longer than 200mm. Like Trask says, the 80mm Bronica is hard to find but you don't really need it since you have the excellent 75mm Nikkor. I also highly recommend the 150mm Bronica lens for portraiture.

With your S2a you can use any S series (S, S2, S2a) back. I can't remember for sure but I don't think the EC backs will work on the S series cameras.

Alan

JoeA · Sep 28, 2013

Hello also George,

As Alan said the backs from the S, S2 & S2a are interchangeable, they are not interchangeable with the EC models.
Any lens made for the classic Bronica will work with your S2a. Classic Bronica's are the D, Z, S, C, S2, S2a, EC & EC-TL.
Accessories, prism finders and such, are NOT interchangeable between the 'S' series and the 'EC' series.

There are more Bronica items available on E-bay-US. I have bought and sold internationally on E-bay-US with little or no problems.
Some sellers have had trouble, if you see something you like you can always contact the seller and see if they will sell internationally.
The major problem with the international sales is the shipping cost, something small, like a filter is not too bad. When the package weighed over 4 pounds the cost was typically over $50.00 US. So that is something to think about.

Most of all, enjoy your Bronica. At one time I had each of the models we have discussed, now I have limited myself to just the EC series. They're great cameras.

Good Luck!

Joe

geostog · Sep 29, 2013

Alan Gales & Joe:
Thank you for your responses.

I checked the US ebay and the shipping costs are really a considerable cost. I think I'll stick with my Nikkor 75 for the moment. I will need some time to work with my new camera and maybe later I will buy a tele for portraits.

Again thank you for your time, you really helped me.

Alan Gales · Sep 29, 2013

Hello George,

I don't know what shipping cost would be to Greece but when I sold my Bronica 150mm lens on Ebay I got less than $100.00 U.S. I felt like I gave it away. It's a wonderful portrait lens.

The Nikkor lenses are considered to be the sharpest followed by the Bronica lenses and then the Komura's. The exception is the 135mm Nikkor which is known for being soft. I have never shot the Komura lenses so I am going by what I read. If you get a chance to buy the 40mm Nikkor it is a fantastic lens. I sold my well used but with great glass sample for $400.00.

You are going to love the 75mm Nikkor. It was my favorite.

geostog · Sep 29, 2013

Alan Gales said:
Hello George,

I don't know what shipping cost would be to Greece but when I sold my Bronica 150mm lens on Ebay I got less than $100.00 U.S. I felt like I gave it away. It's a wonderful portrait lens.

The Nikkor lenses are considered to be the sharpest followed by the Bronica lenses and then the Komura's. The exception is the 135mm Nikkor which is known for being soft. I have never shot the Komura lenses so I am going by what I read. If you get a chance to buy the 40mm Nikkor it is a fantastic lens. I sold my well used but with great glass sample for $400.00.

You are going to love the 75mm Nikkor. It was my favorite.

Alan,

I found really cheap a Nikkor 135. Should I buy it? You mentioned it is soft. Or maybe should I save the money for a Bronica 150?

Alan Gales · Sep 29, 2013

geostog said:
Alan,

I found really cheap a Nikkor 135. Should I buy it? You mentioned it is soft. Or maybe should I save the money for a Bronica 150?

I owned both the Nikkor 135mm and the Bronica 150mm. I got great deals on each of them. My sample of the 135 was softer than my 150mm. I tried both for portraiture and much preferred the Bronica 150mm.

If you can only afford one then I highly recommend the Bronica 150mm. It's sharp but not clinically sharp and just makes a wonderful portrait lens.

geostog · Oct 2, 2013

Some more questions

Hello again.

After some use I have some more questions about my camera.

The shutter speed dial seems to have some kind of bayonet fitting, just like many cameras. Is it just design or I can actually mount something there?

Is there any way to get 6x4.5 negatives from my 6x6 back? And are there any 6x4.5 backs?

Reading the manual, there is a reference for intermediate shutter speeds. However, I don't get the point, maybe a experienced user can help me.

I tried to remove the neck clips but they seem to be stuck, they rotate but they can't be removed. Like I saw on the manual, I have to lift the wings and it will be removed. Perhaps I am not doing it correctly?

On the helicoid unit, I can see 75mm. Will the same helicoid work for other focal lengths or there is another one?

I am a bit concerned about the accuracy of each shutter speed. Is there any way to check it? Or there is no need to worry?

From the first film developed and scanned, I find that using 1/30 and 1/15 speed (and probably slower speeds) the pictures seem to capture some movement. My tripod is not that good and I was wondering if my tripod is not steady enough or the mirror slap is causing that?

And a last one. During the foam replacement on the focusing screen, I placed the fresnel screen, rings side up and the matte screen, shinny side up. Is it correct?

Thank you for your time and sorry for the length

Alan Gales · Oct 2, 2013

I owned an S2a for a short while. I bought it to compare it to my EC's to see which I liked better. I preferred the EC but that is probably because I was used to it. I know some about early Bronica cameras but I am not an expert on them.

The shutter speed dial is a little strange looking. I noticed that on mine but I know of no attachment.

There were no 645 backs for early Bronica's that I am aware of.

I googled the PDF of the instructions to see what you were talking about intermediate shutter speeds. It didn't make sense to me either. I have noticed with some Japanese camera gear the instructions don't always translate well.

Lift the wings and pull up on the connector and it should come off. Remember that these cameras are pretty old.

There is only one helicoid so you have no worries there. Buy any lens you want.

You can check the accuracy of the shutter with a shutter speed tester. Most S2a's bought off Ebay are probably in need of a CLA.

I'm a firm believer in quality tripods rated for at least the weight of your camera. I never had a problem with mirror slap. I don't remember ever shooting at 1/15 or slower but it shouldn't be a problem.

Yes, the matte side of the focussing screen should be facing down towards the mirror and the fresnel (shiny side) pointing up.

There was recently a book published on the early Bronica's you may be interested in.

Good luck to you and I hope I was able to help.

theo120mm · Oct 3, 2013

Καλησπέρα Γιώργο,

Μπορώ να σε βοηθήσω σε ότι θέλεις απλά στείλε μήνυμα.
Είμαι συλλέκτης και τεχνικός Bronica.

Ευχαριστώ,
Θεόφιλος

lxdude · Oct 3, 2013

theo120mm said:
Καλησπέρα Γιώργο,

Μπορώ να σε βοηθήσω σε ότι θέλεις απλά στείλε μήνυμα.
Είμαι συλλέκτης και τεχνικός Bronica.

Ευχαριστώ,
Θεόφιλος

It's all Greek to me!:confused:

theo120mm · Oct 3, 2013

lxdude said:
It's all Greek to me!:confused:

Sorry that I replied in Greek to the OP but you know .... GREEKS

geostog · Oct 3, 2013

Alan Gales said:
I owned an S2a for a short while. I bought it to compare it to my EC's to see which I liked better. I preferred the EC but that is probably because I was used to it. I know some about early Bronica cameras but I am not an expert on them.

The shutter speed dial is a little strange looking. I noticed that on mine but I know of no attachment.

There were no 645 backs for early Bronica's that I am aware of.

I googled the PDF of the instructions to see what you were talking about intermediate shutter speeds. It didn't make sense to me either. I have noticed with some Japanese camera gear the instructions don't always translate well.

Lift the wings and pull up on the connector and it should come off. Remember that these cameras are pretty old.

There is only one helicoid so you have no worries there. Buy any lens you want.

You can check the accuracy of the shutter with a shutter speed tester. Most S2a's bought off Ebay are probably in need of a CLA.

I'm a firm believer in quality tripods rated for at least the weight of your camera. I never had a problem with mirror slap. I don't remember ever shooting at 1/15 or slower but it shouldn't be a problem.

Yes, the matte side of the focussing screen should be facing down towards the mirror and the fresnel (shiny side) pointing up.

There was recently a book published on the early Bronica's you may be interested in.

Good luck to you and I hope I was able to help.

Alan, thank you. You really helped me.

Probably my tripod is not sturdy enough.

geostog · Oct 10, 2013

Hello again to the members of the community!

Playing with my camera I found something interesting. The helicoid unit seems to have a screw mount. I measured it and it's about 58mm. I searched the net for "M58 mount" and seems that there is no such thing.

Does anyone knows more about it? Sounds really interesting as many lenses with a proper adapter could be adapted.

Trask · Oct 10, 2013

I haven't done this myself with my Bronica S2 or EC-TL, but I have read of people who find appropriate caps that screw into those threads, mill out holes in them, and mount this or that lens as they wish. Check out this discussion, for example:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/bronicas/discuss/72157629934275374/

studioesper · Oct 11, 2013

geostog said:
Hello again.
The shutter speed dial seems to have some kind of bayonet fitting, just like many cameras. Is it just design or I can actually mount something there?

It's used for connecting the meter attachment. iirc 57mm, there was a nikkor leaf shutter lens that was screwed in and I think a few misc lenses were screwed in as well.

el wacho · Oct 11, 2013

the 105mm nikkor leaf has its own helicoid - the lens is incompatible with the normal helicoid.
the thread that you have discovered is the 57mm x 1 thread. it is primarily, but not exclusively for the mounting of the standard macro rings. users for years have successfully mounted all sorts of non-bronica lens to this camera because of this 57mm x 1 thread. none of the standard bronica lens - including the old nikon rangerfinder lens that could be fitted on, use this thread. the bayonet mount on the inside of the shutter speed ring is for the old flash-sidebar attachment. they occasionally turn up on eee-bay.

hope this helps

geostog · Oct 11, 2013

Thank you for your replies.

@el wacho: What do you mean mounting macro rings? Also, searching the net I found no such size caps or anything related to that.

@Trask: The idea seems interesting but I fear the execution might be tricky

el wacho · Oct 11, 2013

Tubes like this
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/330756386603

I own a body cap ... they exist.

el wacho · Oct 11, 2013

Ah the screw caps... yes, a company in hk was making 57mm x 1 screw caps.

geostog · Oct 16, 2013

A bit more

Hello again!

After shooting some frames, two rolls actually, finder coverage started to concern me. I tried to find information, but seems there is nothing. Does any member knows what is the percentage the finder covers?

I read some good reviews from people using a Kiev 88 screen on their Bronica. Has anyone tried that? Are there any focus problems?

Thank you again, your replies have helped me a lot.

Trask · Oct 17, 2013

Re: attaching other lenses, here's an adapter that permits you use M42 whatever on your Bronica. The only downside is that going to M42 means you're not going to be able to use the full 57mm of the lens mount. But there's a lot you can with an M42 mount...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bronica-S2-...ens_Adapters_Mounts_Tubes&hash=item45f9e14564

Geoffrey Ferguson · Oct 23, 2013

Hello George,

Your post shows you know a lot about Bronicas! I have an S2 with 3 really good lenses. I'm wondering if the S2 focussing ring assembly that accepts the lenses themselves will fit onto a Bronica SQ or ETR body. Thanks! Geoff Ferguson

Bronica S2A questions

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