Bronica Revolving Tripod Adapter use with ETRS

Hassasin · Apr 14, 2023

Question is ... what is Mr. William Cheung talking about in The Bronica Manual.

First, the Revolving Tripod Adapter made for the GS1

Mr. Cheung states that there was a plate made to fit ETRS on this adapter with proper pins for registration. But he shows no image.

So, is this the plate he meant ?? Or something else? So far I cannot locate any literature from Bronica that would clearly discuss this.

abruzzi · Apr 14, 2023

I'm curious to know too--I had this question to my self a while ago. I've come close to buying the GS one (for my GS-1)--I have the 90 degree prims that makes that work well, but I've never pulled the trigger.

Hassasin · Apr 14, 2023

abruzzi said:
I'm curious to know too--I had this question to my self a while ago. I've come close to buying the GS one (for my GS-1)--I have the 90 degree prims that makes that work well, but I've never pulled the trigger.

As far as I can tell, at this point, the second photo shows the said plate as it has several locating pins and it is mounted on top of base plate (that takes GS1 directly)

Hassasin · Apr 14, 2023

abruzzi said:
I'm curious to know too--I had this question to my self a while ago. I've come close to buying the GS one (for my GS-1)--I have the 90 degree prims that makes that work well, but I've never pulled the trigger.

Just to be clear, there is only one revolving adapter, and that was made specifically for GS1, but there is a plate that mounts on top to accept ETR (and I assume SQ, but that I have not read about, do not own SQ)

MattKing · Apr 14, 2023

Hassasin said:
Just to be clear, there is only one revolving adapter, and that was made specifically for GS1, but there is a plate that mounts on top to accept ETR (and I assume SQ, but that I have not read about, do not own SQ)

Was there a 6x4.5 back for the SQ? If not, I can't see why it would be designed for the square format SQ.
But then, stranger things have happened!

abruzzi · Apr 14, 2023

Yup, the SQ had 645 backs (they are the J backs—i.e. 120J) and also like the ETR they had a 135N and 135W.

mshchem · Apr 14, 2023

I had a the rotary prism for my ETRSi. That was

itsdoable · Apr 15, 2023

The Bronica Revolving Tripod Adapter, along with the Rotarty Viewfinder, was supposed to work together to mimic the Mamiya RB/RZ 67's rotating back when on a tripod, in a studio. That is, the lens axis stays the same when the revolving adapter is used, and the rotating viewfinder allowed waist level viewing - just like those Mamiya's.

The plate for the ETRS is needed to raise the smaller camera body so the lens stays on the same axis when rotated.

Hassasin · Apr 15, 2023

itsdoable said:
The Bronica Revolving Tripod Adapter, along with the Rotarty Viewfinder, was supposed to work together to mimic the Mamiya RB/RZ 67's rotating back when on a tripod, in a studio. That is, the lens axis stays the same when the revolving adapter is used, and the rotating viewfinder allowed waist level viewing - just like those Mamiya's.

The plate for the ETRS is needed to raise the smaller camera body so the lens stays on the same axis when rotated.

The only plate I have found is the one shown in second photo in my original post (and so far nothing in any Bronica literature is showing it, nor discussing it).

It does not seem thick enough to do what you are implying it does. But it does have locating pins, so bottom plate of the camera is fixed laterally and aligned with mounting screw, so body of ETRS drops in and gets secured in place. Also, I use Mr. Cheung's book as reference and he says exact same thing: the plate provides registration pins and makes no mention of anything else.

Rotary finder is not necessary, but I agree it would augment tripod use in most cases. Sadly the ETRS version is just too dark for many situations and I have to assume GS1 one is no better (someone can correct me on how GS1 fares in overall brightness).

itsdoable · Apr 15, 2023

Hassasin said:
<snip> ...It does not seem thick enough to do what you are implying it does. ... <snip>

ETRS has a film gate height or 42mm, while the GS1 has a film gate of 54mm. Assuming all things equal, you would need a 6mm thick plate to put the optical axis at the same height. Probably less, as the ETRS is smaller, and has less space for the mechanics under the mirror box (so it's porbably a little thicker there).

I do not have the rotating viewfinder, but the other prism finders are quite bright, so I don't see why it would be dim in the rotating viewfinder. I don't have an ERTS to compare to either.

neilt3 · Apr 15, 2023

I don't have the Bronica rotating adapter , but I do have a Mamiya 645 rotating tripod adapter .
It works well with the Bronica after a minor alteration .
There is a screw head that sticks out and when the Bronica is turned to portrait orientation seems to touch the camera body .

It might not matter , but I altered mine to a countersunk headed screw rather than the panhead as supplied as I wanted a bit of clearance rather than run the risk of it doing damage .
I've never seen a Bronica one though .

itsdoable · Apr 15, 2023

On the Mamiya Revolviong Tripod adatper, the screw head is suppose to be surrounded by a rubber bumper, and the camera body rests on it when rotated. The bumper can be adjusted or shimmed so that the camera's rotation is perfectly perpendicular. The Bronica revolving adapter is set by stops in the linkages to be perfectly perpendicular after rotation.

Hassasin · Apr 15, 2023

itsdoable said:
ETRS has a film gate height or 42mm, while the GS1 has a film gate of 54mm. Assuming all things equal, you would need a 6mm thick plate to put the optical axis at the same height. Probably less, as the ETRS is smaller, and has less space for the mechanics under the mirror box (so it's porbably a little thicker there).

I do not have the rotating viewfinder, but the other prism finders are quite bright, so I don't see why it would be dim in the rotating viewfinder. I don't have an ERTS to compare to either.

Rotating finder IS dimmer than two other finders I have, for ETRS that is.

The heights you mention I see no relevance. It is where optical axis above base of each that counts that must match. I don’t have that info just judging from front view of each it does not look like the plate of seemingly less than 5 mm will elevate ETR to align with GS1, but there is no official info on this adapter beyond mere mention in GS1 brochure. I cannot find a user manual for the adapter either.

Hassasin · Apr 16, 2023

neilt3 said:
I don't have the Bronica rotating adapter , but I do have a Mamiya 645 rotating tripod adapter .
It works well with the Bronica after a minor alteration .
There is a screw head that sticks out and when the Bronica is turned to portrait orientation seems to touch the camera body .

It might not matter , but I altered mine to a countersunk headed screw rather than the panhead as supplied as I wanted a bit of clearance rather than run the risk of it doing damage .
I've never seen a Bronica one though .

View attachment 335841 View attachment 335842

I was looking into Mamiya option and expected some mod was needed to make it fit. I like how Bronica designed its own though, even if I believe it is substantially heavier option, but also made to fit.

neilt3 · Apr 16, 2023

itsdoable said:
On the Mamiya Revolviong Tripod adatper, the screw head is suppose to be surrounded by a rubber bumper, and the camera body rests on it when rotated. The bumper can be adjusted or shimmed so that the camera's rotation is perfectly perpendicular. The Bronica revolving adapter is set by stops in the linkages to be perfectly perpendicular after rotation.

Sounds like the rubber bumper was missing on mine then , it was bought used .
When the camera was flipped over it definitely seemed to be touching the screw. I couldn't tell if it was pressing down , but I preferred some clearance.
I don't think of memory I could have put a rubber stop on reliably. Though I guess I could have used a drill to make a recessed hole in a small piece of rubber . Changing the screw seemed to be the simplest option and the camera was still solid and stable afterwards. I guess the rubber device was intended as a second point of contact for stability then ?
I assumed as the adaptor was made for Mamiya that when the correct camera was fitted that there would be plenty of clearance, so it never occurred to me there was a reason for it .

Hassasin said:
I was looking into Mamiya option and expected some mod was needed to make it fit. I like how Bronica designed its own though, even if I believe it is substantially heavier option, but also made to fit.

It sounds like my adapter had a rubber bump stop missing , if you get one complete, you probably won't need to do what I did.
Is have probably tried finding a Bronica one if I knew it existed, but then I'd probably still be looking as your post is the first I've ever seen if one !

framptonn · Apr 16, 2023

My problem is.. even with a solution like that to ratate the ETRSi, how could I attach the cable release in vertical?!? That side of the camera would be almost completely blocked!

Hassasin · Apr 16, 2023

framptonn said:
My problem is.. even with a solution like that to ratate the ETRSi, how could I attach the cable release in vertical?!? That side of the camera would be almost completely blocked!

That I'm not sure. I expect some separation with ETRS mounted so maybe there is a way. I am yet to find a photo of ETRSi actually mounted on this adapter

neilt3 · Apr 16, 2023

framptonn said:
My problem is.. even with a solution like that to ratate the ETRSi, how could I attach the cable release in vertical?!? That side of the camera would be almost completely blocked!

IIRC, I used the small very flexible cable release off my Rolleicord TLR , screwed on after you flip the camera over .
I think the usual large type cable releases long metal end foul on the tightening rod in the middle when trying to attach it .
Whereas the small cloth covered one with only the tip being metal is much more manoeuvrable , if a bit fiddly.

If you intend flipping the camera over you need to remove the cable release and reattach each time .

Mines the Mamiya one though not the Bronica .
It looks like you might have the same issue .

itsdoable · Apr 16, 2023

Hassasin said:
<snip> ...The heights you mention I see no relevance. It is where optical axis above base of each that counts that must match. ...

The optical axis is midway in the film gate, that is the main vertical difference in the dimensions of the 2 cameras. Plus the ETRS run the film vertically, so it needs a little more space for the film rollers. Mechanical space below the film gate is otherwise similar as they use a similar mechanism.

In addition, the published vertical dimension of the ETRS is 87mm. The GS1 body is 99mm.

framptonn said:
My problem is.. even with a solution like that to rotate the ETRSi, how could I attach the cable release in vertical?!? That side of the camera would be almost completely blocked!

There is a notch at the back of the side support on the Bronica revolving tripod adapter - is that for the cable release? I'm assuming it matches the GS1 cable release.

Hassasin · Apr 16, 2023

itsdoable said:
The optical axis is midway in the film gate, that is the main vertical difference in the dimensions of the 2 cameras. Plus the ETRS run the film vertically, so it needs a little more space for the film rollers. Mechanical space below the film gate is otherwise similar as they use a similar mechanism.

In addition, the published vertical dimension of the ETRS is 87mm. The GS1 body is 99mm.

There is a notch at the back of the side support on the Bronica revolving tripod adapter - is that for the cable release? I'm assuming it matches the GS1 cable release.

It is midway, but it were one midway vs. the other is n relation to mounting base. I don't know either figure. They look close form I can see in
pics, so possibly they made the plate to ensure this is the case.

On cable release it looks close with that notch you mention, but is the height clearance that may not be sufficient, so it hard to say. At the same time Bronica has a great history of foreseeing problems and designs everything to accommodate a solution. Since that plate was designed to place ETRS on that adapter, for now I have to assume they addressed location of any important part of camera accordingly.

Hassasin · Apr 16, 2023

Just remembered GS-1 has electric release cable, 90 degree small plug (Canon's remote cable is compatible with it BTW). That notch does appear to be in position to open access to the cable, and guessing further from ETRS photos, it should act the same way.

MattKing · Apr 16, 2023

FWIW, that Mamiya revolving adapter is the one designed for the original line of Mamiya 645 cameras - the 645, 645J, 645 1000s - and not the more recent Super, Pro or Pro TL.
It works with my AE finder equipped 645 Pro, even if the mounting orientation is counter-intuitive.
The version designed for those later cameras is vastly larger and looks like this:

Hassasin · Apr 16, 2023

MattKing said:
FWIW, that Mamiya revolving adapter is the one designed for the original line of Mamiya 645 cameras - the 645, 645J, 645 1000s - and not the more recent Super, Pro or Pro TL.
It works with my AE finder equipped 645 Pro, even if the mounting orientation is counter-intuitive.
The version designed for those later cameras is vastly larger and looks like this:
View attachment 335913

Bronica actually lists same style revolver for the GS1 in one of the brochures, but it appears they had opted to go with only what is listed here, as this style I cannot locate anywhere.

framptonn · Apr 16, 2023

neilt3 said:
IIRC, I used the small very flexible cable release off my Rolleicord TLR , screwed on after you flip the camera over .
I think the usual large type cable releases long metal end foul on the tightening rod in the middle when trying to attach it .
Whereas the small cloth covered one with only the tip being metal is much more manoeuvrable , if a bit fiddly.

If you intend flipping the camera over you need to remove the cable release and reattach each time .

Mines the Mamiya one though not the Bronica .
It looks like you might have the same issue .

So it is possible!! Could you please show a photo of that? Anyway you have an ETRS not an ETRSi, I don't know if cable hole has a slightly different position on the camera body.

neilt3 · Apr 16, 2023

framptonn said:
So it is possible!! Could you please show a photo of that? Anyway you have an ETRS not an ETRSi, I don't know if cable hole has a slightly different position on the camera body.

Yes , it's possible and I have two ETRSi's and an ETRS , not just the one camera . ( and an extra ETRS for parts !)
You'll notice these two bodies are the earlier and later style fronts by the shape and the position of the lens release , which is why it looks to be in a different position .
My other ETRSi is the same style as the above ETRS , squarer front and side lens release tab .
The cable release is in the same position relative to the base plate , back and lens mount etc , so work the same on the rotating adapter .
I can't remember where my rotating adapter is as I typically use the camera on a three way head and it's a simple matter to turn it 90 degrees .
When I get some free time , I'll see if I can find it and take some detailed shots with it attached along with the cable release .

In the meantime I've recently acquired a Sunpak auto DX 12R ringflash and the BR-1D Interface module that give's me TTL flash metering .
Up until now , I thought there was only the Metz hammerhead flash that gave TTL flash metering .
I'll be trying the 100mm Macro lens on the ETRS bellows and the AE III head , TTL flash will make life simple without calculations .
I'm fairly certain that the cable connection for the flash will not screw in if the camera is mounted on the rotating adapter .
On my three way tripod head , it won't be a problem .

Bronica Revolving Tripod Adapter use with ETRS

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Bronica Revolving Tripod Adapter use with ETRS

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