I have two main medium format systems that I use, Hasselblad and Pentax 67. I find myself using the Hasselblad much more than the Pentax, but really like the 6X7 format over the 6X6. I also like the form factor of the Hasselblad over the Pentax 67, which is why I'm wanting to experiment with the Bronica GS-1 system. I honestly think I would prefer the Bronica to the Pentax for form factor alone. Here's the big question.............? I just purchased a "like new" body with the split screen and now need a lens, finder and back. So, which lens would be a good starter lens? I've read that there are no "dog" lenses in the GS-1 line up. I was leaning toward the 110mm Macro as the first, but am open to suggestions. Also, suggestions on a finder too. If I like the GS-1, and it fits my needs, I will end up selling off my Pentax gear.
Bronica GS-1 decision?
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- Thread starter John Wiegerink
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Also coming from Pentax 67 (67II).
I have 50, 100 and 200 mm. All very good lenses, sharp without reservations. Saturation and contrast are smoother than Pentax with color film but still "modern", with BW film these differences are almost gone. I would say that you buy whatever lens fits you better.
I have the camera with the standard 90° AE prism. Usability is not as good as Pentax 67II (ankward AE lock button, two-strokes advance, dimmer screen, weights distribution) but a good performer nevertheless.
I have 50, 100 and 200 mm. All very good lenses, sharp without reservations. Saturation and contrast are smoother than Pentax with color film but still "modern", with BW film these differences are almost gone. I would say that you buy whatever lens fits you better.
I have the camera with the standard 90° AE prism. Usability is not as good as Pentax 67II (ankward AE lock button, two-strokes advance, dimmer screen, weights distribution) but a good performer nevertheless.
Thanks for the info, and I have been following your experience here with your GS-1. I think I'll go with the 90 degree prism and maybe the 65mm to start out. If I like the system, I'll get all the lenses except maybe the 80mm. I have eight lenses for the Pentax, but my most used are the 45mm/55mm, 105mm, 165mm leaf shutter lens. That range will probably end up being the most used in the GS-1 system, too.
I'm fresh to GS1 and with RB67 and Hasselblad (among many others in MF) I think GS 1 is a stand out, even if not perfect. But as all other Bronicas from same design principles, it works well and prism finder is of course a must for vertical shots. I also have rotary finder and that makes the grade too.
One thing I do not like is how back attaches to the body with prism mounted. WLF poses no issues, but prism obstructs entry points. So you start at top, lock it at bottom, and you need to line up top latches first which you cannot see easily. With practice this will get easier, but it is THE reason why so many back plates on the body look so worn out around those top entry points due to multiple tries before they go in.
I have also run into one lens, 250, issue of not firing when mounted. Something funky going on there (two other lenses work fine).
As for the lenses I have 50/150/250. 250 looks good and I'm sure I'll find good use for it, when I get it to fire. But overall, as lenses are substantially smaller/lighter than RB67 (and generally somewhat darker) I like overall balance.
For starting lens is a toss up, all dependent on intended shooting. In that sense and given even IQ of all PG lenses, any lens will do as a starter. 110 Macro certainly adds close focusing capability without anything else, while still being a high grade standard lens.
And while at it, get the speed grip if you have not yet, a brilliant add-on for ease of handling (it does add some bulk though).
On potential issue I see coming is the number of contacts to make it all click. Can't speak for durability of this, but AE prism takes power from camera battery and needs to interact with in-camera shutter mechanism/el;ectronics and ISO setting on film magazine, so for metered prism to work all electrical paths have to remain reliably intact.
I wish I got GS1 some years ago when it was going for nothing.
One thing I do not like is how back attaches to the body with prism mounted. WLF poses no issues, but prism obstructs entry points. So you start at top, lock it at bottom, and you need to line up top latches first which you cannot see easily. With practice this will get easier, but it is THE reason why so many back plates on the body look so worn out around those top entry points due to multiple tries before they go in.
I have also run into one lens, 250, issue of not firing when mounted. Something funky going on there (two other lenses work fine).
As for the lenses I have 50/150/250. 250 looks good and I'm sure I'll find good use for it, when I get it to fire. But overall, as lenses are substantially smaller/lighter than RB67 (and generally somewhat darker) I like overall balance.
For starting lens is a toss up, all dependent on intended shooting. In that sense and given even IQ of all PG lenses, any lens will do as a starter. 110 Macro certainly adds close focusing capability without anything else, while still being a high grade standard lens.
And while at it, get the speed grip if you have not yet, a brilliant add-on for ease of handling (it does add some bulk though).
On potential issue I see coming is the number of contacts to make it all click. Can't speak for durability of this, but AE prism takes power from camera battery and needs to interact with in-camera shutter mechanism/el;ectronics and ISO setting on film magazine, so for metered prism to work all electrical paths have to remain reliably intact.
I wish I got GS1 some years ago when it was going for nothing.
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@John Wiegerink The Hasselblad 503cx and the Bronica GS-1 are my two primary cameras. I always go with the Hassy by default, and when I want a 6x7 negative I reach out for the GS-1. I own all Bronica lenses for the system up to 250mm. Why not, they are (were?) dirt cheap and amazing. Happy to answer any specific questions, but here are my general thoughts:
- Just like with the Zeiss/Hasselblad glass, all lenses are extremely similar to each other in terms of optical quality. No dogs. What is annoying though is varying filter sizes and incompatible lens hoods. For some lenses it's hard/impossible to find the hoods because they're made of fragile rubber. One of my hoods deteriorated in less than 3 years. My favorites are the 65mm, 110mm and 150mm, but only because of their focal lengths. Other lenses are great optically too. Happy to provide high-res scans made with any GS-1 lens.
- I own both the prism and the WLF but I adore the WLF finders so I rarely use the prism even though the AE mode is pretty good. I even shoot vertically with a WLF on a tripod. If you combine the prism and a speed grip it's easy to blow through a roll of film in less than a minute at a party. GS-1 can be a very speedy camera if you want it to be.
- GS-1 is very civilized in terms of mirror/shutter shake. I would even go as far as saying that it's easier to shoot handheld than a Hasselblad. There are no "barn doors" and less drama after pulling the trigger.
John, my starter kit came with the 65mm lens, and that suited me well. When I wanted to expand the camera's capabilities, I bought a 150mm lens and 2X teleconverter - thus adding a 300mm lens at 1/4 cost. The teleconverter degrades images very slightly, and can't be used with the 65mm (or so I read in the Bronica literature - I haven't tried it). I think now that the 110 might have been as good choice as the 150mm, as recently I've had more interest in close-up work - and the 110 gives you a closer approach to your subject than the 100mm. I see KEH has a 110 for sale now, in excellent condition. I second the speed grip recommendation - though this would make less sense with a waist level finder. I never take my speedgrip off the camera (it can mount directly to a tripod). The Ric Oleson screen gave my viewfinder a real boost. I found the 6x7 backs extremely varied in quality, despite uniform 'mint-' ratings. I think I'd buy only from Roberts , KEH or Kamerastore for those, if I had it to do over. Ditto the AE prism finder.
I think the best lens hood solution is the universal bellows hood G that only requires easy mounting ring change for whichever lens, and also has gel filter slot. Gel filter may not be for every occasion, but this is certainly a viable option.
Thanks for the helpful suggestions. It's either going to be the 110mm macro or the 65mm as the first lens. If I got the waist level finder, I would forgo the speed-grip, but would certainly have the grip with the 90 degree finder. With my older 500 c Hasselblad I use it with just the waist level finder, and it's nice and compact. With my 555ELX I have the grip and the HC3/70 prism finder, and it's a real joy to use, but it also is much heavier and less compact. I'm pretty darn sure the GS-1 with speed-grip and AE prism are going to be lighter by far over the 555ELX setup I have.
I can say it does not feel that way, bulk nor weight. I have both of these (no grip for 553 as I fail to see any advantage of heaving one on) and GS1 with prism finder alone is on the heavy side, certainly does not feel lighter at all then 553 ELX with PM3. You add speed grip to GS1 and things kind of blow up, weight and size considerably, but none of it takes away the brilliance of the Speed Gruip.
I've not put either on a scale, but I don't do that anyways. Keep in mind, this is 6x7 and no matter how compact Bronica managed to make it, it is still all relative and AE prism finder adds weight and bulk one cannot miss noticing.
Hey friend, I am a Bronica fanboy and got a GS-1 too. I have got the 50, 65, 80, 110 macro, 150 and 200 myself.
Naturally, they are all probably excellent lenses, the 150 is a really really good portrait lens imo. Just something about the way it renders full body photos with the background is chefs kiss. Granted I haven't tried any other 6x7 cameras.
The 110 macro is bonkers flat. Like no difference between center and corner flat (which is par for the course as it is a reproduction/macro lens). Weirdly the kit lens (along with the 250 and 500) are the lenses I don't own. The 110 macro mostly does the job for that focal length but I assume it is quite different from 100 which has more distortion (but better centers) and likely has more character.
I wouldn't get the expensive 80 unless you find a good price on it (very impressive distortion/vignette specs on that one though and I do like some of the photos I got it with quite a lot).
If you go here, you can see crude mtf charts for all the lenses: http://web.archive.org/web/20041224193548/http://www.tamron.com/bronica/prod/gs_lens.asp they are all pretty good and similar to one another.
Adding grips and prisms makes the camera really heavy very quick haha, that rotary prism is especially a monstrous device. To make it even more heavy you can also buy the metal brick rotating tripod attachment.
I guess wlf or prism really depends on a) what's available and b) whether you ever shoot portrait orientation or not.
If you don't mind a smaller format, buying the 6x4.5 back will let you shoot portrait orientation and get 15 frames, so you could do wlf - landscape usually, switch to 6x4.5 back - portrait. Ofc that's a film size compromise but saves a lot more weight than the prism finders.
Also generally bronica groundglass was not as bright as the Hassys, so it is worth considering buying a piece from brightscreen https://rickoleson-brightscreen.com/
p.s. be sure to check fb marketplace/kijiji/craigslist etc. Gs-1 stuff lingers there forever never selling and it is a lot cheaper than ebay usually.
Naturally, they are all probably excellent lenses, the 150 is a really really good portrait lens imo. Just something about the way it renders full body photos with the background is chefs kiss. Granted I haven't tried any other 6x7 cameras.
The 110 macro is bonkers flat. Like no difference between center and corner flat (which is par for the course as it is a reproduction/macro lens). Weirdly the kit lens (along with the 250 and 500) are the lenses I don't own. The 110 macro mostly does the job for that focal length but I assume it is quite different from 100 which has more distortion (but better centers) and likely has more character.
I wouldn't get the expensive 80 unless you find a good price on it (very impressive distortion/vignette specs on that one though and I do like some of the photos I got it with quite a lot).
If you go here, you can see crude mtf charts for all the lenses: http://web.archive.org/web/20041224193548/http://www.tamron.com/bronica/prod/gs_lens.asp they are all pretty good and similar to one another.
Adding grips and prisms makes the camera really heavy very quick haha, that rotary prism is especially a monstrous device. To make it even more heavy you can also buy the metal brick rotating tripod attachment.
I guess wlf or prism really depends on a) what's available and b) whether you ever shoot portrait orientation or not.
If you don't mind a smaller format, buying the 6x4.5 back will let you shoot portrait orientation and get 15 frames, so you could do wlf - landscape usually, switch to 6x4.5 back - portrait. Ofc that's a film size compromise but saves a lot more weight than the prism finders.
Also generally bronica groundglass was not as bright as the Hassys, so it is worth considering buying a piece from brightscreen https://rickoleson-brightscreen.com/
p.s. be sure to check fb marketplace/kijiji/craigslist etc. Gs-1 stuff lingers there forever never selling and it is a lot cheaper than ebay usually.
If you haven't already seen it, this web site has basic data on the PG lenses:
lens-db.com
zenza bronica | Search results
lens-db.com
How is Oleson's screen affecting AE prism readings? It should if it's brighter.
I haven’t had any complaint about the original groundglass, but I do like the Rick Oleson screen I have on my Rolleiflex a lot, so this is a question I wonder as well.
On the subject of the speed grip, I always use it. It isn’t very heavy but makes it so much easier to handle and carry IMO. And the double stroke thumb film advance is kinda brilliant. I’d suggest trying one.
Ah yeah that's a good point. I haven't tried the gs-1 metered prism with Rick Oleson screen, but the groundglass is brighter so it should affect the reading. On my SQ with my Chimney Prism Finder, I did a quick test against a spot meter and decided to overexpose the finder by 1.3 stops more or less. I assume it'd be similar here, but it is easy enough to figure out. Just put some tape on the finder reminding you to set the iso lower on the film.
The gs-1 does actually have off the plane metering which in theory should be the most accurate as it involves no groundglass...but it is only usable with a flash and only usable with the bronica g1 flash too....(I do own the flash actually but it was failing to fire for me, most likely due to faulty or corroded contacts somewhere in the grip or body).
I will say the GS-1 speedgrip is way nicer than the one for the SQ (and probably the Hassy). Way nicer because it is much easier to install, you don't need to engage the grip with the hand crank like you do on the 6x6s.
edit: OH right before I forget. For off-camera shooting, the GS-1 requires an electronic shutter release unlike the easily available mechanical ones. It is a pain but that is the case sadly. I believe the Canon RS-60E3 one should work though I haven't tried it (https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/cable-release-for-bronica-gs-1.55479/)
Here's a video:
Actually most any 2.5 mm plug standard release will work fine, Canon's does but there are much cheaper and just as good alternatives that do the same thing.
THIS surely does work as I have it.
Awesome to know!
Well, we're snowed in here in SW Michigan and I got bored so went to KEH's site and bought a 110mm lens, 6X7 back, 90 plain prism and a speed-grip. I'll test things out as soon as they arrive.
I have Rick Oleson's because the original screen of my camera was in bad shape. I made some trials and both gave the same readings with AE prism. Brightness is and looks the same, but image on Rick's central patch seems contrastier and better defined.
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I've had the pentax 67, hassy 503, and the bronica GS1 with 100mm 3.5. The GS1 is my favorite. Handling is great, image quality is excellent and it is truly hand holdable. I wish I still had it and built up the system with a few more lenses. As others have said the speed grip is very useful.
Thanks, what you say is what I'm hoping for. I'll find out when my package arrives from KEH.
Another handy listing of PG lens data from the B and H website.
Just for the record, 150 mm filter size is incorrect. It is 72 mm, not 82 mm. That is why the combo 65-110-150 is so popular, all three share the same filter diameter (they are also lighter than 50 or 200 mm).
I thought that it was 72mm until I looked at B&H web site sheet. My old Hasselblad 500C outfit was 50mm, 80mm and 150mm and I got along just fine with that for more than 40 yrs.. Of course, I did add some more lenses and bodies, but could have survived just fine with the 500C and those three lenses forever. So, my starter for the GS-1 will be 65mm, 110mm and 150mm. I got all I ordered from KEH for the GS-1 and will do a follow-up report here later today.
Thanks for that correction - I missed it.
Your note on the 65-110-150 suite is spot on - consistent filter size swayed my choice of lenses to those three. I have yearned for the 50mm lens, but the space the 50mm would take in my pack is given to the 2X teleconverter, and another filter set is just not on.
Speaking of 2X converter......................? I do plan on picking either a 1.4X or 2X converter up in the future, but was curious as to which one is better optically? Most of the time the 1.4X converters beat out the 2x one, but not always. I have an off brand one I got for cheap for my Hasselblad and was amazed at how well it worked on my 250mm. Well enough that I won't be getting the 500mm Tele-Tessar unless it falls in my lap for almost nothing.
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