Bronica ETRS woes...

[fabulousrice]

I bought this Bronica ETRS about two years ago knowing it had some issues but nothing that prevented functioning. The back door element could swing open to put new 120 rolls in or out, but it was attached to the camera, and I could not change the back to a, say, 135mm back. I was ok with that.
It came with 3 lenses which made it a really nice deal.

But it had a part on the bottom that had been taped and that had fallen off and the previous user had placed it back with adhesive tape.

This is what the bottom part looks like - the previous user had taped it. The camera worked ok so far for both them and I:

I probably only shot 2-3 rolls with it over the past 2 years, mostly because of how cumbersome these are to use compared to other medium format cameras with bellows.

A few weeks ago, I heard something fell from it while moving it, and found this on the floor (fingers for scale):

I thought it might be a problem, but I was able to shoot a whole roll with the camera nonetheless afterwards - the photos looked great.
The small part doesn't seem to go anywhere obvious... here are details of the underside of the camera, under the plate that comes off:

I can't see anywhere where this little piece of metal should go back (but maybe it fell from somewhere else than the bottom?).
Also, there is no screw hole in this small piece of metal, so I'm not sure how it stays in place usually.

Today, I loaded it with film, advanced the film, took the first picture, and the first picture fired normally.
And that was it.
I put on another lens, and the second picture didn't fire. I placed the first lens back on, still nothing.
I tried with a soft trigger screwed in on the side of the camera, nothing.
I checked the battery with a tester, it read the battery was full, I replaced another battery from my Pentax 67, still nothing.

The shutter presses all the way, but the camera doesn't fire. I went in a dark room and removed and rewound the new roll of film, and replaced it with a "dummy" exposed roll that I use for tests, but there's nothing I could do to understand what is going wrong...

If this is something that can easily be fixed, I'm happy trying, I've fixed cameras before (although not ones with electronics...) Otherwise, I'll sell it for parts and try to find a used body with less issues... thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Arvee]

I just took a look at mine and can't seem to find anything that looks like that small part. However, I strongly suspect that it is part of the magazine that tells the body that film is present and loaded. The camera won't fire unless there is film in the magazine. Perhaps that piece fell out of place and even though you loaded the mag with film, that piece was missing or out of place and was telling the body mag empty and therefore won't release the shutter.

 

[grat]

The good news is, I think it's just the film back. There's a safety mechanism that prevents the back from being removed without the dark slide in place. I would guess that the former owner had removed the taped-on plate so he could fiddle with the release.

Try the small black button on the lower left side of the camera and see if the film back will come off-- the behavior you're describing is what happens when the dark slide is installed all the way. In the second picture, there's a pin inside a small piece of black plastic-- I believe that's the pin that tells the camera whether the dark slide is installed or not, so you might be able to slide it back and forth with a small screwdriver.

Short version, get a new film back, with dark slide.

 

[fabulousrice]

The good news is, I think it's just the film back. There's a safety mechanism that prevents the back from being removed without the dark slide in place. I would guess that the former owner had removed the taped-on plate so he could fiddle with the release.

Try the small black button on the lower left side of the camera and see if the film back will come off-- the behavior you're describing is what happens when the dark slide is installed all the way. In the second picture, there's a pin inside a small piece of black plastic-- I believe that's the pin that tells the camera whether the dark slide is installed or not, so you might be able to slide it back and forth with a small screwdriver.

Short version, get a new film back, with dark slide.

So, maybe I should have said that but I do actually have the dark slide. Following your advice, I placed the dark slide inside and tried to pry the film back out, and I got it out! For the first time since I've owned the camera.

I am realizing that the camera body communicates with the film back through "pins" seen here on the bottom left and right corners:

Only, on my camera, these little "pins" don't pop out when the film is inside the camera and the camera back is closed. It seems neither of them do!

See, here there is film inside and the back is closed - pin1:

And pin 2:

I think the part that fell off came from this area, on the bottom right corner, because the push-pin moved freely inside the small black plastic part:

Thanks for the help anyways - if I had access to another back it would be easy to tell if the camera itself has issues as well or if it's just the back, but I'll look for a cheap back and see what happens!

 

[Dan Fromm]

OP, do you have the user manual? Sounds like you don't. Download from: https://www.butkus.org/chinon/bronica.htm

If you have it, read it.

 

[grat]

There should be a pin in that small hole in picture three, which tells the camera the dark slide is in (pin all the way out). The pin on the other side says the film has advanced and is ready for the next exposure.

Oh-- since you have a working 120 insert, you can probably buy a 220 back and swap out the inserts. I did that with my SQ-A, as the 220 insert (with dark slide) was pretty cheap by comparison.

 

[wiltw]

I bought this Bronica ETRS about two years ago knowing it had some issues but nothing that prevented functioning. The back door element could swing open to put new 120 rolls in or out, but it was attached to the camera, and I could not change the back to a, say, 135mm back. I was ok with that.

I nave owned an ETRSi system since the 1990s; I am located near the west end of the San Mateo Bridge. I have an extensive, pristine Bronica ETRSi kit, including extra magazines and sacrificial roll of film. I would be willing to meet you at a Starbucks in Foster City, close to the end of the bridge, to provide a back to test your body, and to help with diagnosis of your troubles. If interested, send PM with your name and mobile phone number, and I will call at a mutually agreeable time to work out where and when to meet.

 

[fabulousrice]

I nave owned an ETRSi system since the 1990s; I am located near the west end of the San Mateo Bridge. I have an extensive, pristine Bronica ETRSi kit, including extra magazines and sacrificial roll of film. I would be willing to meet you at a Starbucks in Foster City, close to the end of the bridge, to provide a back to test your body, and to help with diagnosis of your troubles. If interested, send PM with your name and mobile phone number, and I will call at a mutually agreeable time to work out where and when to meet.

Thanks Will! That's incredibly kind of you. Does it still show that I live in the Bay Area? I live in LA now! Anyways,
I'll find a 220 back as the previous commenter suggested and swap out the insert, it sounds like a good idea.

 

[fabulousrice]

There should be a pin in that small hole in picture three, which tells the camera the dark slide is in (pin all the way out). The pin on the other side says the film has advanced and is ready for the next exposure.

Oh-- since you have a working 120 insert, you can probably buy a 220 back and swap out the inserts. I did that with my SQ-A, as the 220 insert (with dark slide) was pretty cheap by comparison.

Hey - so I followed your advice, and bought a 220 back...
And after placing it on the camera, whether it was with the 120 or the 220 insert, the camera still wouldn't fire with a test roll.
And the advance mechanism on the body of the camera makes a weird clicking sound when I wind it to get to the first picture (as seen here).
It's smooth for a turn then hard then it "pops" and is smooth again.

I'm kind of running out of ideas, and money, to resurrect this camera. I'm quite depressed because I have a long history of bad luck with SLR medium formats, and it keeps making me feel really sad.
If you know what could be wrong with it, let me know.

 

[grat]

Disclaimer: I have an SQ-A. But other than format, it seems to be a very similar design to the ETRS. If anyone who has an ETRS can correct anything I get wrong, that would be useful.

First, with the film back removed, set the mult-exposure lever to "forward".

This allows you to shoot with no film. Turn the crank, the mirror should pop down (if it's up) and halt after one turn. You should be cocked and able to release the shutter (which will throw the mirror up and sound like the gates of doom).

Now, while watching the gear on the back of the body (and the pin in the lower right), move the multi-exposure lever to straight up-- the gear should have moved out a bit, and there should now be a pin visible in the bottom right hole

If that's all true, then the body is working.

Next, if you open the film back, it should reset the counter to S. Put the film in, close it up, and advance to "1" using the winder on the film back (unattached to the camera). When the counter hits "1", there should be a "click" and the pin should pop up in the small silver protrusion on the film back. Should also prevent you from winding to the next frame on the film back as well.

 

[wiltw]

Confirming functional operation described by grat.

 

[fabulousrice]

Disclaimer: I have an SQ-A. But other than format, it seems to be a very similar design to the ETRS. If anyone who has an ETRS can correct anything I get wrong, that would be useful.

First, with the film back removed, set the mult-exposure lever to "forward".

This allows you to shoot with no film. Turn the crank, the mirror should pop down (if it's up) and halt after one turn. You should be cocked and able to release the shutter (which will throw the mirror up and sound like the gates of doom).

Now, while watching the gear on the back of the body (and the pin in the lower right), move the multi-exposure lever to straight up-- the gear should have moved out a bit, and there should now be a pin visible in the bottom right hole

If that's all true, then the body is working.

Next, if you open the film back, it should reset the counter to S. Put the film in, close it up, and advance to "1" using the winder on the film back (unattached to the camera). When the counter hits "1", there should be a "click" and the pin should pop up in the small silver protrusion on the film back. Should also prevent you from winding to the next frame on the film back as well.

Hi, thank you so much for your help.
If I remove the back, move the multi-exposure lever forward (position where the red dot underneath is visible), and wind until it stops, I just see this. And pressing the shutter doesn't do anything.
Is the mirror stuck?

 

[wiltw]

The mirror is not 'stuck' necessarily. Are you sure the rotational ring aound the shutter button is rotated out of the Lock position?!

 

[fabulousrice]

The mirror is not 'stuck' necessarily. Are you sure the rotational ring aound the shutter button is rotated out of the Lock position?!

I did more tests and fiddled with the ring around the shutter button, and got the camera to fire after following suggestions by wiltw and grat.

After I was able to fire a few times with the multi-exposure lever down, I winded the film on the film back, and placed it in, and I was able to fire and wind through my test roll - except for frame 7 where the shutter first pressed down without nothing happening, then fired.
But if I remove the lens mid-roll and put it back on the body, that's it, it stops firing and winding instantly.

In this video, I followed the suggestions by grat after removing and replacing the lens (turn sound on to know when the camera fires).
And as you can see, the shutter doesn't fire when pressed during a few attempts, even after fiddling with the lock ring. Only at the end, after moving the multi-exposure lever (and winding, thus wasting one exposure if the camera was loaded), does it fire on second attempt.

Clearly, I cannot afford to waste a whole roll of film if this strange behavior was to happen while shooting / after changing the lens...

Are there similar tests to see if the contacts between the lens and the body are working as they should?

 

[grat]

If you have more than one lens, might try seeing if the other lens behaves normally (put it on, take it off, put it back on). I was in an email conversation with Jimmy Koh of kohscamera.com (who unfortunately, does not repair Bronica cameras any longer) in which he helped me figure out what's wrong with my particular model, and during the conversation he suggested the problem might be the "lens shutter magnet". It turned out to not be the issue (the contact for the finder pin is wonky, so it only works reliably with an AE finder installed).

You might try emailing him for advice-- he seems very willing to share what he knows.

I'm afraid you've reached the end of my knowledge. I know there are other Bronica users on here-- they may be able to help.

 

[fabulousrice]

If you have more than one lens, might try seeing if the other lens behaves normally (put it on, take it off, put it back on). I was in an email conversation with Jimmy Koh of kohscamera.com (who unfortunately, does not repair Bronica cameras any longer) in which he helped me figure out what's wrong with my particular model, and during the conversation he suggested the problem might be the "lens shutter magnet". It turned out to not be the issue (the contact for the finder pin is wonky, so it only works reliably with an AE finder installed).

You might try emailing him for advice-- he seems very willing to share what he knows.

I'm afraid you've reached the end of my knowledge. I know there are other Bronica users on here-- they may be able to help.

Hey grat,

Thanks for the advice. I was able to shoot a few rolls almost normally with the bronica, but then there's a moment every once in a while where it won't fire.
The main lens I am using is kind of difficult to fit into place, the other ones less so, but the problem persists whatever lens is on the body.
I just purchased a different, very similar ETRS body. Testing out the lenses and backs I have on this body will definitely help figure out if the body of the camera is the culprit...

I went to Samy's Cameras but they don't repair these anymore I think, the guy however pointed out the battery was flat and putting a new one didn't help the camera fire...

I was going to give up altogether and try to adopt a Pentax 67 as my main medium format camera, but that didn't work - I couldn't get used to it at all, so the Bronica ETRS is definitely what I prefer shooting with.

I'm just curious to know where the small metal piece fell from, if it was from the body and what part, or lens, or back... I can't really see anywhere that it would fit.

Thanks for your help, I will message Koh's cameras.

 

[moto-uno]

Being a user and lover of the Etrs(i) cameras , I'm still curious , have you had any success with the Etrs body ? Peter

 

[flavio81]

Being a user and lover of the Etrs(i) cameras , I'm still curious , have you had any success with the Etrs body ? Peter

Me too. ETRSi user and fan here. Would like to know the conclusion.

 

[fabulousrice]

Thanks moto-uno and flavio81 for your interest in this thread! (Are you in instagram sharing these sweet ETRS pics? Add me!)

I contacted KOH cameras as was suggested to me earlier, and I was told that it was:
"the problem is at the camera body cocking unit, you can send it in for repair, repair is around $80.00"

Which is great news! And I will send it to get fixed as soon as the USPS works again - if I understand correctly the USPS has been hacked?
At least as far as I'm concerned, I've seen my packages travel around in odd directions they weren't supposed to go in the past few days, so I'll wait it out and then send it!

If you guys have ETRS bodies that might need a cleanup or revision, I would send it if I were you - before no one else offers this kind of service.

Cheers,

@fabulousrice if you want to see some recent ETRS pictures (as well as some 35mm...)