Bromoils with liquid emulsion

[Dan Dozer]

Is anyone out there beside Emil doing bromoils on liquid emulsion. Looking for others to share info and experiences with.

 

[cliveh]

I have thought about this, as it could have possible success by using a non-super coated paper.

 

[Dan Dozer]

I've had a lot of success using the emulsion from FOMA, but am now trying mixing my own emulsion and having a few challenges. If you want to try liquid emulsion, you might also consider the application method that Emil Schildt has developed.

 

[radiant]

I have Bromoil bleach ready mixed (hope that doesn't get old fast) and some liquid emulsion.

So bromoils would be possible with liquid emulsion? Cool!

 

[removed account4]

Hi Dan
Did Emil publish his application method on the WWW? From what I remember his website is no longer active.
John

 

[Dan Dozer]

Hi John,

I don't believe he published it so you probably need to buy his book (wonderful images in it) on Bromoil Printing with Liquid Emulsion. He has several books he has put together and they are available on the internet. He doesn't spend a lot of time describing his process in the book using sponges instead of brushes, but there are a few U-tube videos of his process and images out there as well. I could never get brushes to work very well, but I don't know if the traditional brush application method will work very well with liquid emulsion because the emulsion is fairly thick. Emil Schildt is active on this forum and has given me some valuable advice.

He brush coats his paper with the emulsion, but I've also been using Denise Ross's coating technique with a glass rod very successfully.

Here are a couple of color bromoils I have done using Emil's technique (hope they download properly)

Dan

 

[radiant]

Here are a couple of color bromoils I have done using Emil's technique (hope they download properly)

Could you write some short summary for newbie of the technique? I'm totally interested trying this with Foma emulsion.

 

[removed account4]

Hi John,

I don't believe he published it so you probably need to buy his book (wonderful images in it) on Bromoil Printing with Liquid Emulsion. He has several books he has put together and they are available on the internet. He doesn't spend a lot of time describing his process in the book using sponges instead of brushes, but there are a few U-tube videos of his process and images out there as well. I could never get brushes to work very well, but I don't know if the traditional brush application method will work very well with liquid emulsion because the emulsion is fairly thick. Emil Schildt is active on this forum and has given me some valuable advice.

He brush coats his paper with the emulsion, but I've also been using Denise Ross's coating technique with a glass rod very successfully.

Here are a couple of color bromoils I have done using Emil's technique (hope they download properly)

Dan

View attachment 284972 View attachment 284973

hi dan
wow, those are beautiful!
I have one of his books, I will have to look again through his posts and for his notes ...
thanks for posting this info!
John

 

[Dan Dozer]

Vedostuu - here's a short summary:

Paper - you need heavy weight water color paper (300g minimum). Arches Platine, Bergger Cot 320, and Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag work real nice but are expensive. Starting out, I would just find some less expensive paper to start on. If you have a local art supply store, see what they might have and try some out. I've used some less expensive paper that Strathmore works and have had some success with it. Textured paper is much more difficult to use than smooth and takes more practice. But - it does give you a different look.

If your FOMA emulsion also came with a little bottle of hardener, throw it away, you don't want to harden your print. You need to heat up the FOMA emulsion to about 110 - 120 degrees F. You don't have to be super accurate with temperature - just so it is liquid. Important - the effectiveness of the emulsion deteriorates the more times it is heated up. So - scoop some of the jelly like emulsion into another cannister to heat it up in (I assume you keep your bottle of FOMA emulsion in the refrigerator). Brush coat the liquid emulsion twice letting the emulsion dry in between coats (once will not give you enough contrast). You will have issues with brush strokes when you start out - you just have to learn the techniques to get it nice and smooth. If you want to try the glass rod technique, get Denise Ross's book - she describes it in great detail.

Start out with 8 x 10 size. Make your print a little darker than normal (think lith printing). You need an image with a lot of good contrast you want good blacks and whites.

Bleach the print as you would with normal bromoils with a Copper Sulfate based bleach and fix/wash the print. You don't have a separate Tanning soak like with traditional bromoils.

You will need Lithographers ink just like with normal bromoils. Black ink is easier to work with when you are just starting, but you can also try colors. Get a can of Magnesium Carbonate. You need that to thicken the ink. Add some to the ink and mix - then add more, and more until the ink is very thick and isn't really very sticky/shiny anymore. Spread the ink out in an even patch. Don't use a brayer like you would with normal Bromoils - you don't want a super thin layer to work with. Let it sit for a few minutes while you soak your print.

Put the print into a tray of water for a few minutes. Dry it damp like you would for normal bromoils. You can't have any visible moisture still on the print. The surface of the print may feel a little sticky - that is good. Get some pieces of old foam rubber sponges like from inside an old mattress. Cellulose sponges like you may wash your dishes with in your kitchen won't work. Dab the sponge onto the ink to get a little ink on it then dab it onto your print over and over again. The ink will be transferred to the print just like brushes work in traditional bromoils, but the real image comes up much faster. If your sponge is picking up pieces/globs of ink from your plate, your ink isn't thick enough and you need to add more magnesium carbonate. Don't be too aggressive in adding the ink to your print as you might damage the emulsion. Just work over the print as the ink is transferred to it. Use a clean sponge with light motions to even out the texture and help bring out the detail.

That's it. Don't worry about getting the full dark tones in your print right away. Let it dry over night and then do some more the next day in the dark/shadow areas and it will help build up the contrast.

Also, look up Emil Schildt's videos on Utube. He has a couple that show him applying the ink. And if you are serious about this - buy Emil's book on Bromoil printing. He created this process and is the real expert. We photographers who are doing this process should acknowledge his time, research, experimentation, and perfecting of this process by buying his book.

Keep us posted on how it works for you. It would be great to get a few more photographers out there doing this process so we can learn from each other.

Dan

 

[radiant]

Thanks @Dan Dozer !

I've done salt prints so I know the issue with coating. The liquid emulsion is even worse than salt/silver nitrate water

Bleach the print as you would with normal bromoils with a Copper Sulfate based bleach and fix/wash the print. You don't have a separate Tanning soak like with traditional bromoils.

I have premade bleach with tanning with this recipe:
70 mls of 10% copper sulphate
70 mls of 10% potassium bromide
30 mls 1% potasssium dichromate

Do you think it doesn't work. It is not a big work to try ..

For the inking: I've done zero bromoils so I will just try out something first. Usually after that reading instructions gives the "aha, I see!" moment

 

[Dan Dozer]

This is Emil's bleach recipe:
Potassium Bromide - 20 g.
Copper Sulfate - 20 g.
Potassium Dichromate - 2g.
3 liters of water.

Fully bleach, rinse the print, fix with a slow fix, and then final wash the print. Now it's ready for inking. Most of the color from the bleached print goes away in the fix.

IMPORTANT - keep the temperature of all of your solutions below about 77 degrees F maximum or you run the risk of softening the emulsion in the print and having it peel off.

I've found Emil's method of using sponges works easier and faster than the traditional method of using brushes to apply the ink.

Good luck

 

[radiant]

I've now coated, dried + exposed few liquid emulsion papers. Oh man those are fragile when wet, are you sure the hardener shouldn't be used? I need to dry the prints before trying bleaching. I couldn't wash well because otherwise the emulsion would probably scratch off completely.

Foma emulsion seems to be about 1 stop faster than for example other Foma fiber papers. Also the development is pretty rapid.

 

[Dan Dozer]

You can use the hardener if you are not going to do Bromoils, but bromoils and hardener don't mix together.

 

[radiant]

I tried bromoil, just a sketchy test and .. I failed.

I tested few different papers:
- Self coated water color paper with Foma emulsion, no hardening (very fragile emulsion!)
- Aga Brovira fogged paper
- Fomatone MG 131

Bleaching: Self coated paper bleached pretty well, I think. The two commercially coated paper left a faint and visible image even I bleached them very long. Self coated had a bit of texture or "relief"? The commercial did not have this, they were quite or very smooth.

Inking: all papers had some bromoil-effect, so the image started to appear a bit. But my sponge technique was probably horrible too..

I used Adofix fixer which might be bad idea. Could it explain the whole failure? But my test was like "first smokes" test to see how things are done etc. So probably I messed things on the way. Bromoil probably is quite "narrow" in terms of what works and what doesn't. I probably did hit that area with my methods.

 

[Dan Dozer]

I'm not a chemical person when it comes to fixers, but it looks like Adox Fixer is ammonium thiosulfate based which I believe is a hardening fixer. Sodium thiosulfate based fixer is not a hardening fixer and that is what you want for bromoils.

 

[MattKing]

I'm not a chemical person when it comes to fixers, but it looks like Adox Fixer is ammonium thiosulfate based which I believe is a hardening fixer. Sodium thiosulfate based fixer is not a hardening fixer and that is what you want for bromoils.

Neither sodium thiosulfate fixers nor ammonium thiosulfate fixers are necessarily hardening fixers. You need to add a hardening component in order to make either of them hardening fixers.
Whether or not a fixer is compatible with added hardener depends on how it is buffered, among other things.
As an example, both Ilford fixers - Ilford Rapid Fixer and Ilford Hypam are rapid ammonium thiosulfate fixers. The main practical difference between the two is that Hypam is compatible with hardener, if you choose to add it.

 

[radiant]

Maybe I will ask Fotoimpex about that. Or use plain sodium thiosulfate. Before that I need to build automatic rocking tray for myself ..

 

[Dan Dozer]

Just resurecting this thread from a year ago. I've done a lot of work with liquid emulsion and bromoil printing and now feel that I'm actually getting sort of good at it. Notice to anyone interested that I'm publishing a new book about this type of bromoil process that will be out sometime after Christmas. It won't be all that expensive and will be both print to order and Ebook versions. It will be called "The New Bromoil Process". Feel free to send me a note if you are interested and/or have any questions.

Dan Dozer