Broken Loaner - what would you do?

E. von Hoegh · Jul 30, 2013

Wolfeye said:
I'll be the voice of discontent, since most advice here, thus far, is to forget it and move on.

If a friend of mine had loaned my daughter a camera and she broke it and then returned it without a word, I'd like to know. As a parent. Something is wrong here. It could be simple ignorance (the damage occurred but wasn't noticed) but it could also be that the child didn't know that it's expected to be returned in the same condition it was loaned in. She may assume this is normal wear and tear. It's sad, but true, how little regard some people, kids or adult, have for material things.

This is an important moment in the child's life. Doing nothing may save your friendship with the family, but someone is getting away with something.

I've said my peace. As a parent, I'd want to know. I would literally be brought to tears if my daughter acted like this.

Agree 100%. The girl is old enough to know about honesty and responsibility. The fact that the parents handed over an obviously damaged camera without a word is a clue here.

Were I the OP, I'd be giving some thought to whether or not I want such folks as freinds.

edcculus · Jul 30, 2013

Was the camera in some sort of bag? You could always play a little dumb. Even if it wasn't in a bag I guess it could work. Just make it out like they gave you the camera back, and you put it up on the shelf not thinking about it. Then, the "other day" you decided to give the camera spin or something and noticed how dinged up it was.

David Lyga · Jul 30, 2013

The momentum of our times is to simply ignore one's wrongdoing and hope to get away with it. People, today, are adept at covering their tracks and acting with complete 'innocence'. It is quite amazing how parents seem to not only accept such thinking but also tacitly seem to even approve of it. The 'worst' one can do is ADMIT guilt. The lack of genuine sincerity in today's culture is profound and I find the ones 'excusing such behavior to mere ignorance' as adding to the problem and not meeting it 'half way'. We are taught to adopt such personal exoneration by our plastic culture of 'me, me, and more me'. Sorry to sound so pseudo-psychological but it is true.

And with everything from cyclists who hit pedestrians and simply ride off to what the OP experienced, the lack of responsiblilty, today, is omnipresent. Again, sorry for ruffling feathers here but I would rather be publicly condemned than not admit this: today children are taught not to do bad because 'they will get caught' instead of the old-school way of not doing wrong because that, in and of itself, it wrong. In the first instance, children quickly develop a way around getting caught and, by inference, are thus OK with the wrongdoing if effectively consummated because an underlying ethics was not even mentioned to the little darlings as being of any real significance. (No, I am not a child hater!)

Do not lend. Period. That is a nasty admission to make about human relationships but, believe me, you will stay friendlier with such people (even with that demonstrated caveat) after the negative reaction wears off. Better to be somewhat distant and cool with people rather than overly friendly and living the life of making believe you are not a perpetual victim.

Glad I said that (despite the inevitable reactions). - David Lyga

redrockcoulee · Jul 30, 2013

There is a good chance the parents did not notice the damage, they may not have really looked at it. I would bring it up to them in a polite gentle way. It may have been the girl, a friend of the girl's or the parents themselves. For now you suspect the girl as being irrresponsible and it may not be the case. I would not ask for them to pay for the camera at this point.

As far as others stating one should not lend out stuff, that is terrible advise; a good friend of mine is a member of this forum and I borrow more from him than he does from me.

Some one mentioned not lending money to family members. My brother was terrible at paying back and often would not pay back until you asked him for it. One day I needed some money and borrowed $20 from him. About 3 hours later I returned and gave him the twenty back and his response was "What is this for" and I told him I borrowed it earlier in the day. He shrugged and said that if I said so it must be true. He simply did not remember lending and I think he also did not remember most of the times he borrowed.

redrockcoulee · Jul 30, 2013

David Lyga said:
The momentum of our times is to simply ignore one's wrongdoing and hope to get away with it. People, today, are adept at covering their tracks and acting with complete 'innocence'. It is quite amazing how parents seem to not only accept such thinking but also tacitly approve of it. The 'worst' one can do is ADMIT guilt. The lack of genuine sincerity in today's culture is profound and I find the ones 'excusing such behavior to mere ignorance' as adding to the problem. We are taught such omission by our plastic culture of 'me, me, and more me'. Sorry to sound so pseudo-psychological but it is true.

And with everything from cyclists who hit pedestrians and simply ride off to what the OP experienced, the lack of responsiblilty, today, is omnipresent. Again, sorry for ruffling feathers here but I would rather be publicly condemned than not admit this: today children are taught not to do bad because 'they will get caught' instead of the old-school way of not doing wrong because that, in and of itself, it wrong. In the first instance, children quickly develop a way around getting caught and, by inference, are thus OK with the wrongdoing if effectively consummated because ethics was not even mentioned to the little darlings. (No, I am not a child hater!)

Do not lend. Period. That is a nasty admission to make about human relationships but, believe me, you will stay friendlier with such people (even with that demonstrated caveat) after the negative reaction wears off. Better to be somewhat distant and cool with people rather than overly friendly and living the life of making believe you are not a perpetual victim. Glad I said that (despite the inevitable reactions). - David Lyga

There were a lot of people like that when I was growing up in the 50s and 60s too!

zsas · Jul 30, 2013

David - I respectfully disagree with what you said:

It is quite amazing how parents seem to not...

I'd prefer a some in there. Like this:

It is quite amazing how [some]parents seem to not...

Though we're all entitled to our opinions.

Without a some your words hurt...

Re-read post #25...

David Lyga · Jul 31, 2013

zsas: your relatively minor qualification is taken as correct by me.

redrockcoulee: Also I experienced much of the same as you did in that tainted era of the 50s and 60s. But, you know, there was not the 'forced innocence' that we see today. Today, innocence seems to be a cottage industry and is greatly facilitated by anonymous technology. Parents ARE different today as they are quicker to 'defend' their progeny. There ARE noteworthy exceptions by those parents sufficiently prescient, honest and considerate but I have seen far more examples of parents defending clearly wrong children today than in the past.

To me, at least, the extent of damage experienced by the OP is clearly known to both parent and child. It would be obvious to anyone, even to those not connected to photography. Endless excuses for the matter encourages endless fabrications. - David Lyga

mjs · Jul 31, 2013

I believe that I'd buy a replacement camera.

Mike

David Lyga · Aug 1, 2013

mjs:

...."and wisely learn from my unfortunate experiences".

GRHazelton · Aug 1, 2013

I decided many years ago to make only rarely loans of any gear I cared about, and then only to folk I knew I could trust to respect the gear.

Case in point: I loaned a mitre box which had been my father's to a "friend." The mitre box, for those who aren't familiar with them, isn't one of the wooden U-channels with pre-cut slots, but a glued up L-channel with a metal adjustable and calibrated guide to accomodate a back saw. My father and I in my turn had always put a wood scrap in it so that the saw wouldn't cut into the base. My "friend" returned it with the base badly scarred from the back saw, which was also severely dulled. No apologies. Perhaps he was ignorant; that is the most charitable interpretation I can make.

While this damage was small compared to ruining a functional camera (I don't know the SRT Super, but the SRT 101 was/is a delight) it speaks to the same basic unconcern for the property of others; and this incident occured perhaps 25 years ago, so the problem is not a new thing, sad to say.

David Lyga · Aug 2, 2013

No GRHazelton, it was not due to 'ignorance'. That person knew what he/she had done but sought to cover-up the deed with a type of innocence that would hopefully (and naively) be accepted as such by you.

That, 'ignorance', is a term used by some to mitigate the truth by inferring that there was no malfeasance present, much like how we, collectively, do not ever, ever wish to allow CEOs who steal money to be called thieves. They are known as persons who 'misappropriate' money. We must always speak kindly of people who are 'important', especially the Wall Street speculators (who love capitalism when there are profits and love socialism when there are losses to spread around.)

Am I 'off-topic' moderator? (Pehaps relevancy and necessity excuse such sinfulness of mine.) - David Lyga

danfogel · Aug 12, 2013

Epilogue

Things always work out in the end or it is not the end, or something like that, right?

Out of the blue, the father emailed and said he planned to buy a camera for the daughter to use in her second year photography class and he wanted my assistance in locating one. By then, I had purchased a lovely replacement for my daughter, but felt that faced with this question I should say something. So I simply (with my wife's editing) explained that the camera they had returned was damaged and I described the extent of the damage. The father said he was unaware of any of this, felt terrible and said he would pay to get it fixed. I checked with a repair person and was told it wouldn't be easy to fix cheaply (cheaply being the operative) and I reported that back. The father offered to reimburse me for the cost of the replacement. I think that is fine and I have accepted. I may list the broken one for sale here soon listing all the warts and allowing someone handy to give what once was a very nice camera a new home.

BrianShaw · Aug 12, 2013

danfogel said:
... (with my wife's editing) ...

Glad to hear that the situation was resolved to your satisfaction. My wife and I do the same, as much as possible, when responding to 'difficult" discussions. It is amazing how that takes a potentially confrontational situation and transforms it into a reasonable discussion.

I may have been tempted to sell him the damaged camera, though. If it was good enough for first year, it should be good enough for second.

Jesper · Aug 12, 2013

Nice to hear that the situation has been solved. Hopefully the parents will have a word with their daughter before handing her another camera.

clayne · Aug 13, 2013

Dan, I have a few spare SRT-101s laying around if you'd like me to send you one. Just pay shipping.

Broken Loaner - what would you do?

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