Bright lights bleeding into other frames

ericdan · Jan 6, 2020

When I shoot a frame with really bright light sources on the edge of the frame it seems to bleed over to the next frame. The sample I attached is the sun, but I’ve noticed the same for light bulbs when it shoot indoors.
Is this a camera problem or a film problem?

138S · Jan 6, 2020

What camera ?

It can be light seals at the bottom (image is inverted in the projection on film...) in the rear door of the camera, perhaps it's intermitent, when you press the door or not...

ericdan · Jan 6, 2020

M2. The backdoor is a little loose.
But if the door was the problem wouldn’t the focus be more apparent than the light bleeding over?

John Wiegerink · Jan 6, 2020

Possible pin hole in either the fore or aft shutter curtain???? Probably not, but you never know. Since the edge marking aren't touched and it's between frames it might be the capping shutter didn't close in a tiny spot.

ericdan · Jan 6, 2020

John Wiegerink said:
Possible pin hole in either the fore or aft shutter curtain????

Hmm. I could check for that

138S · Jan 6, 2020

ericdan said:
M2. The backdoor is a little loose.
But if the door was the problem wouldn’t the focus be more apparent than the light bleeding over?

No... because the pressure plate has an elastic element that places it in position.

If the backdoor is a little loose... you may have the reason...

It could also be an issue in the shutter, not totally clossing sometimes, or a pin, but as the "blemish" is inter-frame it should be the door, if it was the curtain the framing would prevent the contamination in the frame at the side.

As the film sides (perforations) are clear I guess light can enter from one side of the door...

Well, or it's the door or its the courtain... I guess it has to be the door because the blemish is iter-frame.

John Wiegerink · Jan 6, 2020

138S said:
No... because the pressure plate has an elastic element that places it in position.

If the backdoor is a little loose... you have the reason...

It could also be an issue in the shutter, not totally clossing sometimes, but as the "stain" is inter-frame it should be the door.

If it were the door the edge of the frame would show bleed also. I think it's more a shutter related thing myself. I have worked on a few Leica cameras and have seen a few with their shutters burnt due to laying face up in bright sunlight. Usually if that happens for any length of time the burn hole is fairly large.

138S · Jan 6, 2020

John Wiegerink said:
I think it's more a shutter related thing myself.

...but in that case, how do you explain that the blemish takes two frames ? The interframe would probably be clear if it was the courtain...

ericdan · Jan 6, 2020

This camera was serviced by Kanto Camera six months ago. It has brand new curtains. I'd be surprised if it's the curtains.I've expressed concerns over the loose door before. Kanto took a look as well as Leica in Ginza, Tokyo. Both said it should not be an issue. I am not sure if I believe that. It makes sense to me that the wiggle in the door would affect light leaks or focus.

Sirius Glass · Jan 6, 2020

ericdan said:
This camera was serviced by Kanto Camera six months ago. It has brand new curtains. I'd be surprised if it's the curtains.I've expressed concerns over the loose door before. Kanto took a look as well as Leica in Ginza, Tokyo. Both said it should not be an issue. I am not sure if I believe that. It makes sense to me that the wiggle in the door would affect light leaks or focus.

Take it back to Kanto Camera and ask them.

John Wiegerink · Jan 6, 2020

138S said:
...but in that case, how do you explain that the blemish takes two frames ? The interframe would probably be clear if it was the courtain...

Not if the capping curtain didn't close all the way near the bottom edge.

138S · Jan 6, 2020

John Wiegerink said:
Not if the capping curtain didn't close all the way near the bottom edge.

john, there is a physical frame that makes the framing on film, which casts a shadow in the perforations and in the inter-frame, a temporary light leak cannot expose two frames at the same time...

abruzzi · Jan 6, 2020

I have plenty of examples where extremely bright light in frame causes the light to flare out past the edge of the frame, but I’ve never experienced it flaring so far that it impacts the neighboring frame. If that first frame has the sun in it bleeding onto the second frame, my first thought would be if the pressure plate is holding the film close to the frame opening. If it isn’t, I would think a bright light could work itself a good way down the film path.

John Wiegerink · Jan 7, 2020

138S said:
john, there is a physical frame that makes the framing on film, which casts a shadow in the perforations and in the inter-frame, a temporary light leak cannot expose two frames at the same time...

Yes, that's true. I'm stumped I guess.

Luckless · Jan 7, 2020

138S said:
john, there is a physical frame that makes the framing on film, which casts a shadow in the perforations and in the inter-frame, a temporary light leak cannot expose two frames at the same time...

Unless the light leak in question happens to occur during film advancement...

What are the film movement and shutter related mechanics like on an M2?

I've not played with one yet, but I am suspicious as to why there is such a clean masking along the film edges, but not the frame spacing. To me this looks like something is forcing a tiny shutter fault during film transport.

If it were a light leak from the back of the camera then wouldn't we expect to see bleeding into the sprocket area?

However, Abruzzi's suggestion of pressure/alignment issue allow a gap in the frame-mask would also be high on my list of sources. But then I would expect the bleeding to likely go further into the perforation area, so that's really looking like a weird bit of light...

ericdan · Jan 7, 2020

That’s a good point. It’s not bleeding above the frame only to the side.

brbo · Jan 8, 2020

If you look at the film gate of your Leica you will see why the leak into the side is much stronger. The film rides on horizontal rails and back pressure plate presses the film onto the rails. On the sides, though, there is a small gap between the masking frame and film so the light can seep into the sides. I've seen this with strong light on the sides (although not as strong as yours) on my Leicas and other cameras and I don't think all of my cameras have a light leak or a shutter problem. It's also more prominent with wide angle lenses.

Bright lights bleeding into other frames

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