bourke white & edward Weston & Parkinsons disease

Andrew O'Neill

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Sorry to hear about your diagnosis, jtk.
Apparently it can be passed down from parent to kid (rare)...There has been no Parkinson's in my family that I know of. Lots of high blood pressure and cholesterol, though. Even though I try to look after myself (lots of veggies, and fish), mild exercise, keep my fingers out of chemicals, don't smoke, don't drink, I'll probably have a fatal jammer before I get Parkinson's.
 

DREW WILEY

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halfaman - Or perhaps because I've spent more time hanging out with actual medical people than with Wickipedia. My own wife worked in the OR with a nuerosurgeon for a number of years, and even diagnosed rare brain conditions herself. There are still many mysteries to Parkinsons which I don't pretend to be conversant about; but if you even understood your own Wickedcentipedia quote, you'd understand that the term describes a net effect of a certain categorical nature, yet something which still potentially involves numerous pathways, including chemical and environmental risk factors. And such risks in the darkroom itself, formerly unrecognized, can now be mitigated by applying some common sense and wearing chemical-resistant gloves, good ventilation, etc.
 

Sirius Glass

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I am sorry to hear that jtk has Parkinson's. All the best.
 

warden

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Oh my - another link to Wickipedia, the encyclopedic beginning and end of all hearsay truth. Why am I NOT impressed?
Would you be impressed by JAMA, Britan's National Institute for Health and Care Excellence, The Journal of Neurology Neurosurgery & Psychiatry, The Lancet, and the Royal College of Physicians? Those are the footnoted sources from the relevant section of the Wikipedia page that was linked, but there is much more if you care to learn.

Parkinson's is not "basically a symptomatic classification of disease". It is a disease. Full stop.
 

DREW WILEY

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Stop playing games with words. Do you think I was born yesterday, and am impressed with superficial quips like that? This is a photographic forum, and pyro has long been suspected on MULTIPLE FRONTS of being a Parkinson's risk factor. Yet we're clearly not talking about the cause of the symptoms of Muhammad Ali or Jerry Quarry, which at one time at least did did fall under the category of Parkinson's. "Causality" is an actual term itself when defining a specific disease. Boxing gloves are not made of gelatin. But there is voluminous R&D work being done at the present time by the medical sector itself on the relation between pyrogallol tanning and gelatin for medical purposes, including prothetic applications, the kind of thing where risk factors must be seriously weighed if anyone expects something to become commercially viable, and entice committed tech investors toward it. And it's a complex specialized field. My own Bio and Organic Chem education is now half a century old, long before these kinds of fields were ever dreamt of. But the risks of pyro in other high-volume industrial applications have been assessed and now restricted as needed. Still photo applications are only a tiny percent of the picture, but important to recognize if you happen to be within that small percent, which includes me as a pryo user.

But here you are, trying to impress me, when you don't even know where to look for the tip of the iceberg. At least I have a good idea where to look. But do I need to? No, not for my own purposes; I have boxes of disposable nitrile gloves in the lab. But I also, right this moment, am literally surrounded by stacks and stacks of medical literature, journals, texts, all over the place, and am even printing this on a computer mainly used for medical conferencing purposes.
 

removed account4

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I have it too ... recently diagnosed, early stage at age 78.

I am really sorry to hear that you have this. I'm glad to hear you have been receiving care and are in the hands of specialists. A friend of the family lived with PD for decades, I think he had a neural implant that helped with his situation. Im not familiar with photographers or their specific cases. Stay positive.
John
 

warden

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But here you are, trying to impress me, when you don't even know where to look for the tip of the iceberg.

I am not trying to impress you.

That Wiki article is a fine place for anyone to start if they want to learn the basics about PD. A good step #2 would be the book Brain Storms, The Race to Unlock the Mysteries of Parkinson's Disease by Jon Palfreman. It's an easy and engaging read, and covers many of the topics in this thread.
 
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DREW WILEY

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As you should well know, there is an awful lot simply not adequately known yet about the development of Parkinson's; and therefore the mere definition of it as a specific disease might very well evolve into a number of symptomatically-related but distinct by causality definitions of it down the line, just like is happening with the definition of schizophrenia, for example. Terminology changes with better knowledge. And I certainly hope that by stating "symptomatic" in relation to classification, you didn't think I was implying possibly "psychosomatic", versus "real disease", which Parkinson's surely is.

My dabbling into the peripheral relationship of pyro to gelatin tanning was more in relation to hypothetically finding an analogous but better alternative to carbon printing based on modern scientific findings rather than just accumulated accidental experience, but even that still contains a lot of unknowns. What has come to the forefront, nonetheless, is the industrial risk factors involved, whether someone is talking about hypothetically reviving the classic Technicolor movie process dependent on pyro cross-linking, or the commercial development of gelatin replacement tissues and prosthetic components. The chemistry per se, as I indicated, is a very specialized field, and I don't pretend to have a handle on that.

But at a PRACTICAL LEVEL appropriate to a forum like this, the manner in which enforcement and disposal agencies like the EPA look at it, or worker health insurance carriers, or MSDS sheets, or facilities engineers, gives a pretty good clue as to the potential risks of mishandling. And on that basis, formal studies so far concur with common sense darkroom protocols. Pyro is a health risk, and quite possibly a Parkinson's factor specifically. So wear those gloves, and have an effective darkroom ventilation system in place. No need go write or even read a phD thesis on it to grasp those basics.
 
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warden

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As for following best practices when using photographic chemistry, I'm in full agreement of course. I would hope that most here can read, understand, and follow the instructions that come with chemistry. Lacking that reading comprehension can cause health problems.

As for the rest of the PD stuff you are referencing, I recommend reading from reliable sources.
 

DREW WILEY

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Or I could just ask a specialist next time he accidentally rings my cell phone instead of my wife's in her own department. Or I could just ask my wife herself, if I were stupid enough to ruin her highly needed relax time after work. It's an interdisciplinary specialty clinic. But another neurosurgeon recently tried to recruit here. Glad she didn't accept - just too nerve-wracking a job. We've already been through that once.
But even after that phase, she'd keep in contact with former patients and bring them fresh baked cookies from time to time. Sometimes I'd come along. One was a former astronaut and test pilot from the early days of the program who was basically given a new lease on life after a major brain surgery; but I think he's passed by now. When I last saw him when he was 96, but still extremely bright and full of inside stories about the development of so many things in the Apollo as well as earlier Mercury projects. But the cameras themselves were at first rather simple tweaks of ordinary gear, so he wasn't ever much interested in that aspect of it.
 
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jtk

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a small note: I'm not experiencing anything negative other than loss of strength for my formerly rugged hiking (I live at about 5000 feet at the foot of another 5000 foot cliff (abrupt mountain range) in New Mexico. Physical therapy immediately brought big improvements and optimism. No problem with fine motor controls, camera work and Photoshop are unaffected. From what I've learned online and MDs, there is no medical treatment, no drug, no vitamin etc that has anything to do with daily experience at my relatively low level. If this gets a lot worse that might change...but I'm optimistic.

Thanks for your many well-wishes. Must be terrible for tobacco/alcohol addicts, lonely types, and people who were never athletic in their youth.
 
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DREW WILEY

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Well, I hope this will progress slowly enough that you'll be able to coast out the rest of your life in relatively normal activity, Jtk. Keeping up fitness is always beneficial, as is clean higher altitude air. Some loss of strength simply comes with the normal process of aging too; so don't get alarmed. We just keep doing the best we can.
 

DonW

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I have to laugh. For many photographers obesity is more likely to adversely affect their health than a bit of chemistry.
 
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It would interesting study. To find all the photographers present and past, who use(d) a darkroom to process film and paper, to see how they died or what current disease they have.
 

MattKing

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Eastman Kodak had very detailed workers health data which showed that it was how materials were handled that was the most important factor.
 
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Very true Matt, but in addition to the isolated photo materials we are talking about. I would also like to see in context these photo materials and “other” risk factors, that when combined leads to an early demise for people. Diet, types of food, water quality, air quality. Anything situation that brings chemicals to the body, whether we accept, aware of them or not. I wonder out loud if a combination of these brings about health issues that we are not even aware of.
 
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