Bought some Kodak HIE, now what?

Andy K · May 19, 2006

Reading this month's (May) BW Photography I came across the article on Dave Miller's darkroom (Envy is an understatement! ), in that article was his beautiful IR shot of Houghton Mill (which for some reason was labelled asDelta 100!). Having been curious about IR for a while, Dave's shot finally got me out to Jessops (who btw appear to have gone totally digital now, both instore and on their website) and buying a roll of Kodak HIE from their film cabinet which contained no more than about a dozen rolls of film.

So here I am, roll of HIE stashed safely in fridge... and no idea how the hell to use it!
I know I have to load and unload the camera in complete darkness, and the same for processing but...
Most importantly how do I meter for IR without an IR meter?
How do I determine the correct focus distance on my lenses with no 'R' marking? I realise I could use a deep depth of field, but how do I determine speed and aperture?
Do I have to use a red filter for best effect? Will a Cokin Red 003 filter do the trick?
Will I still get good results on a cloudy day or is a good sunny day best?

At £10 per 36 frame roll I want to get this right!

All replies appreciated,

Andy.

Ps. I'll be using my OM-1, with Zuiko 50mm and 28mm and Tamron 70-200mm, only the Tamron has an 'R' marking.

kaiyen · May 19, 2006

I have a feeling you're going to get some much more detailed answers than I can provide, but sometimes I feel like actually posting _something_ on apug so here goes.

I don't know what the Cokin 003 filters slots in as compared to a red 25. A red 25 is about the lightest filter I'd go with, and is actually what I use most of the time. Enough visible light gets through that you don't actually have to worry about the focusing issue all that much. If you use a dark IR filter, like a Wratten 89b, then you have to worry about it. f8 or smaller with a Red 25 is just fine.

I have not had major issues with metering - I set the meter to 400 with the filter on and just fire away, bracketing usually only under, -1 and if I'm really unsure -2. I do adjust for different situations, though, as per my experience. If I'm shooting all plants on a sunny day, I set my EI to 1600 and bracket -1. If it's buildings, then I shoot at 400. This is all based on what types of objects reflect more and less IR radiation.

I have shot IR on both cloudy and sunny days. With HIE, at least part of the look is the halation, so shooting on sunnier days gives you more of that. But you'll get some nice results on cloudy days with softer lighting. Plants will still come out white and water will still come out dark. But the more "classic" IR shots are on sunnier days.

allan

colrehogan · May 19, 2006

Here's a link to Clive Rowley's really good site regarding use of Kodak HIE with just a red filter and there are plenty of examples.

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/invisiblelight/index.html

Robert Hall · May 19, 2006

I might volunteer my website as well. www.roberthall.com (how to section)

Lachlan Young · May 19, 2006

Andy K said:
Ps. I'll be using my OM-1, with Zuiko 50mm and 28mm and Tamron 70-200mm, only the Tamron has an 'R' marking.

If you check out THIS picture you will see that the 50mm f1.4 has IR markings at the f4 dof marker - ie when you are holding the camera in your hand the IR mark is the F4 DOF marking to the right hand side of the normal focus marker.

Hope this helps,

Lachlan

David Lingham · May 19, 2006

Andy

I've used HIE for a number of yrs. Too long actually, and I'm trying to wean myself off it! But it is addictive. If this is any use to you; Set camera meter to ASA 400, with a 25A red filter in place on lens, meter as normal and bracket +1 stop until you find what works for you. I've developed in HC110, ID11, Pomicrol but my favourite is Rodinal 1+25 @ 6-7mins depending on your enlarger light source, mine is a dichro head and I prefer a full neg, so adjust to suit. Normally I use 24mm so DOF is not an issue. Good luck.

Dave L

Andy K · May 19, 2006

Allan thanks for the advice (glad I could also coax you into posting on APUG )

Colrehogan thanks for the link, very informative.

Robert great site, photographs and advice, thankyou! ( I can't stop looking at the photograph on your front page, beautiful!). I also greatly enjoyed your colour infrared work.

Lachlan, I've been using Olympus for years, how the hell did I miss that? Both my Zuiko lenses have that mark! Damn those subtle Olympus designers!

David, thankyou for the advice. I was wondering about using Rodinal with HIE, it is encouraging to hear positive reports from one who has done exactly that!

I think I am going to enjoy this! As for addictive, I'm not so sure about the... not at ten pounds a roll!

BWKate · May 20, 2006

Andy,

I think that Dave Miller doesn't use the Kodak Hie but the Maco film. He shoots 120 format and Hie doesn't come in 120. You might want to ask him. He's very nice and would probably reply to this thread if he finds it.

I love Hie and use it quite a bit. I also rate mine at 400 asa and use a B&W 25A filter. I develop mine in Kodak D-76 straight at 11 minutes. It works for me. Lots of people have their own methods and you just have to find one that's good for you.

Almost all of the photos in my gallery are Hie, except for 2.
Good luck and happy shooting!

BWKate

Dave Miller · May 20, 2006

Yes, just found it. So; I'm very nice am I! Must work on that. :rolleyes:

Another link that may help:
http://www.cocam.co.uk/CoCamWS/Infrared/INFRARED.HTM

I havn't used the Kodak IR film, and at £10 a roll doubt that I ever will, but then I've little sympathy for any one that buys from that shop.

You are right Andy, I did mix up the caption on the picture. It was taken, as are all my IR pictures, on Maco film. That has now been superceeded by their Rollei branded product which I am waiting to test.

Let us know how you get on.

Andy K · May 20, 2006

Thanks Kate! Chances are I will use Rodinal for this first roll (unless I can get my ID-11 made up, see below). I particularly liked EMP and Zipper in your gallery!

Thanks for the link Dave, I did note you used the MACO film. I am tempted to build a shed like yours... but living in a flat I think the neighbours might have a problem with me taking the balcony from them!

Ok, now all I have to do is wait for it to stop raining!

I do have another question for anyone in the UK reading this. I have some powdered developer to make up, (ID-11) which states I should make up the full amount (5 litres) only. No problem. However, does anyone know a source of 5 litre containers for the mixed solution? I have looked high and low, apart from 1 litre and two litre containers (hugely overpriced because they are prefixed with 'photographic'!) I have found nothing! I have been to DIY stores, garden centres, photographic stores...

Ps, Dave, I went to Jessops because I only wanted to buy a single roll to cut my teeth with in IR. To order a single roll from anyone online would have cost just as much once shipping was factored in. I usually order in bulk (bulk for me, maybe not bulk for a professional!) every couple of months or so. I made my last order a few weeks ago and therefore do not need anything else for the time being.

I think that may well be the last purchase I make from Jessops. They seem to have had a major restructuring recently and now show all digital in their shops with a single small, two thirds empty, cabinet of film tucked away in the rear of the shop and half a dozen packets of paper on the floor leaning against the wall nearby, with a single eighteen inch shelf of chemicals. Their website has recently been 'upgraded' and now looks like any other pig-ugly computer store website (complete with flatscreen TVs advertised!) see for yourself here.

Dave Miller · May 20, 2006

Andy,
I'm also waiting for the weather to brighten so that I can test the Rollie IR I have against the maco IR.

I mix my bulk chemicals in a bucket, and then decant and store it in 1 lt bottles. These are either brown glass or the black Tetenal containers that I keep when the original contents are used.

Andy K · May 20, 2006

It does look like I am going to have to use 1 litre bottles. I was hoping to avoid this as shelf space is becoming limited! Mind you on the plus side it does mean I can keep the solution in topped up bottles until required.

fatboy22 · May 20, 2006

Hi Andy,

I shoot HIE all the time, (the cut down 120 version from David Ramano) and this is what works best for me. I rated the film at 400 ISO and shoot it with a orange filter over the lens. I like this combination because I can hand hold the camera and shoot at 1/250 @ f11 on most sunny blue sky days. Try to shoot with good sun light and have the sun behind you. You will still get a good dark sky and very nice bright white foilage. The darker the filter you use Red25, Very dark red, IR89B, 87 the more cosmic your shot will look and the slower the film speed will be. Check out my gallery, most of it was shot on HIE. I process in d76 @ 15 minutes. Good luck, its awesome film.

Jamie

mikeg · May 20, 2006

Andy K said:
It does look like I am going to have to use 1 litre bottles. I was hoping to avoid this as shelf space is becoming limited! Mind you on the plus side it does mean I can keep the solution in topped up bottles until required.

Hi Andy,

I sometimes use the 2 litre green fizzy water bottles that you get from Sainsbury's & Tesco's. The chemicals seem to last quite a while in those, especially if they are completely full and stored in the dark. They're certainly better than the concentina style ones that you can get. If you do use them, make sure that you clearly label them though!

Cheers

Mike

Keith Tapscott. · May 21, 2006

BWKate said:
I love Hie and use it quite a bit. I also rate mine at 400 asa and use a B&W 25A filter. I develop mine in Kodak D-76 straight at 11 minutes. It works for me. Lots of people have their own methods and you just have to find one that's good for you.
BWKate

Almost the same as myself except my camera`s TTL meter is set to ISO 800.
I bracket +/- one stop. I love Kodak HIE too.

pentaxuser · May 22, 2006

Andy. The book by Hugh Milsom is worth a read. It's called Infra-Red Photography. He has a chapter called "Workshop - On Location" in which he describes various shoots and how he worked out his image. His main film seems to be Kodak HIE and for developers Aculux and Rodinal. There's also a section on other infra-red photographers' work. It's ISBN number is 0 86343 373 1.

pentaxuser

Andy K · May 22, 2006

Thanks everyone for the advice. My camera is now loaded and I have managed to get a few frames during a brief sunny spell on Sunday.

Now awaiting more sun so I can go to a location I have in mind.

Pentax, thanks for the book recommendation, I'll chase it down.

Dracotype · May 22, 2006

Ah! You have stumbled into the wonderful world of infrared. Good choice. HIE may be expensive, but no other IR film has the sensativity range or halo effects that HIE has. It is almost worth the $12 price here in the US.

I am not sure if anybody has said this, but bracket. + or - 1/2 stop if you can. With HIE a half stop can make a significant difference to the mood. Good luck.

Drew

donbga · May 22, 2006

Dracotype said:
I am not sure if anybody has said this, but bracket. + or - 1/2 stop if you can. With HIE a half stop can make a significant difference to the mood. Good luck.

Drew

I agree with this totally. Shooting 35 mm IR is cheap compared to the cost of shooting LF.

Andy if you are reading this I would reccomend purchasing an entire brick of HIE. You will need to shoot several rolls carefully recording exposures and figuring out your development. I personally would reccomend PMK 1:2:100@77F for 12.5 minutes as starting point for development. You will never have blow highlights with PMK once you dial in your EI and development times.

As for meetering I don't. In normal daylight scenes begin your exposure at 1/60#f11 using a #25 or #29 Red filter. I prefer the 29. Becareful not to under expose the film. With practice you will know intuitively how to expose for your favorite light conditions. After you shoot about 100 rolls of this film you will be able to feel the exposures and concentrate solely on compositons.

I have fears that Kodak will quite producing this film. I've experimented with digital IR and while the effects are interesting its still not the equivalent to HIE. The old gaussian blur effect in PS just doesn't cut it.

gr82bart · May 22, 2006

donbga said:
I have fears that Kodak will quite (sic) producing this film.

I do too. They have stopped producing the Aerial 2524 70 mm IR film last year that David Romano uses to cut down to 120 sizes. I have 12 rolls of his film left. I plan on getting another 20 rolls and another brick of 35mm HIE film this summer, just in case.

Regards, Art.

Andy K · May 22, 2006

At TEN POUNDS (that's $18.85 USD) a roll, I won't be shooting much HIE. I only bought this roll to try it out.

Andy K · May 23, 2006

We had some sun today. Here's a few quick unadjusted neg scans. They look ok, but there are things I will do differently next time. Like use a zoom on a couple instead of the 28mm. I'll make a few prints from these this week and see how they turn out.

Dave Miller · May 23, 2006

Looks promising Andy, get printing.

Robert Hall · May 23, 2006

Looks like you nailed it! Nice work.

knutb · May 24, 2006

Looks very promissing! I've been thinking about IR myself, so it would be interesting to know what kind of filter you used for these shots?

Bought some Kodak HIE, now what?

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