bought my first folder camera.. focussing question.

chris77 · Sep 13, 2015

i have to admit that i am sometimes getting a bit tired of carrying around the rz67.
especially when i dont know what i am looking for and/or dont want to carry a backpack.

so i bought a 6x9 agfa folder camera.
ventura 69 deluxe (export version of record II) with 4.5/105mm solinar lens.
hopefully arrives soon ..

in the meantime some questions come up.

1. focussing by estimating the distances. especially close focussing. interesting and challenging. anybody out there who succeeds in nailing it? how do you like it in everyday shooting?
2. shutter vibration of the compur rapid. good, bad?
3. this cam got no cable port. instead a t-lever that has to be pressed down (and released after exposure). is this any good or is it more stable to manually keep the release pressed (B).
4. any other experiences/things to know/share about this cam? there is not too much coming up in the search..

well, i sure could wait until it arrives, but i have to say that i enjoy getting to know it already a bit... virtually

nice sunday eve
chris

R.Gould · Sep 13, 2015

I use a lot of folders, MF and 35mm, some have built in rangefinders, for those that don't I have a small rangefinder, cost me around £5 GBP.
the compur shutter,as is the prontor, is a leaf shutter in the lens, there is no vibration, at least not with mine, I hand hold my folders and any other between lens camera down to 1/2 second without problems. with the t or time lever put a piece of thick paper or board over the lens, use the t exposure, remove the board and start exposure, cover lens at end with board and release the lever, much more stable than using the shutter release as on B, should be a lot of fun and the Solinar lens is a very well thought of lens, It was standard on many Agfa cameras, I have 2 35mm Agfa's with the Solinar lens and I have no complaints about the quality of the results, and it should be better on a 69, when it comes just use it and enjoy it
Richard

Peltigera · Sep 13, 2015

Focusing does not need to be down to the millimetre - I estimate the distance by imagining myself lying down between me and the subject. Multiply the number of 'me's by two to give the distance in metres (I am as near as dammit 2 metres tall). Use f/8 or smaller for insurance.

Leaf shutters do not vibrate.

T will require a delicate touch and a tripod.

Alan9940 · Sep 13, 2015

Hi Chris,

I have a few MF folders; two with uncoupled rangefinders and one with couple rangefinder. To be honest, I nail focus more often with the uncoupled rangefinder where the distance needs to be manually transferred to the lens. I admit, though, that I don't shoot a lot of closeup subjects with these cameras so DOF and subject distance is playing a roll here.

As Richard said, these are leaf shutter style lenses which minimizes vibration. I've shot at very slow speeds and never noticed any issues from vibration. I don't have any experience with the folder you bought, but one thing I'd caution you about is to take a close look at the bellows. All of the Agfa/Zeiss/etc folders are very old and most need a bellows replacement by now.

Good luck! I think you'll really enjoy using this camera and results from that 6x9 neg when using slow films is nothing short of amazing IMO.

Best regards,
AlanH

DannL. · Sep 13, 2015

You can verify the focus quick enough with just four exposures. Place the camera on a tripod at a height of approx, 4-5 ft. off the ground. Place four targets near ground level. A grass covered lawn really works well for this. Place one target at (for example) 5 ft., one at 10 ft., one at 20 ft., and one farther at 30 ft. Choose distances that match settings found on the scale of the shutter. Verify your distances with a tape measure. Under good lighting, focus for each target and make an exposure @ f/16. At this time you can also verify your handheld rangefinder, if you have one. When evaluating your negatives you can easily see where the focus is in the grass, the acceptable depth of focus and where it resides, and whether or not the target is in focus. I once had a Voigtlander Bessa folder that simply could not be focused. Once I did the procedure above, I was surprised to learn how bad that focus was.

To stabilize a handheld shot, I hold the camera with one hand at the furthest end of the camera where the shutter resides, while the other hand is at the film plane end. This gives two points of leverage, and helps to reduce the angular velocity of the camera as the shutter is released.

Have fun with your camera.

SalveSlog · Sep 13, 2015

Alan9940 said:
...
... is to take a close look at the bellows. All of the Agfa/Zeiss/etc folders are very old and most need a bellows replacement by now.
...

I think you mean Agfa only?
I have many Zeiss folders and none of them needed a bellows replacement!

R.Gould · Sep 13, 2015

I never buy Agfa folders because of the bellows problem, many of them were made with a plastic material which detorites badly, but Zeiss,ensign,kodak Voigtlander and others use leather, I have yet to see a bad bellows from any of them, but some agfa's did have leather bellows and should be fine, it is just knowing which one
Richard

Alan9940 · Sep 13, 2015

SalveSlog said:
I think you mean Agfa only?

Yes, Agfa mostly, but I have seen Zeiss folders that needed a bellows replacement. I admit, not nearly as common as on the Agfa but it does happen. Same as on LF cameras...really comes down to age, storage conditions, and how it was treated over the years.

SalveSlog said:
I have many Zeiss folders and none of them needed a bellows replacement!

I'm happy for you, but I have seen a Zeiss or two that needed a new bellows.

chris77 · Sep 13, 2015

thanks for all the comments so far..

so, in case the bellows (i think i got a plastic one) needs replacement, because i cant just fix some pinholes (if it got any ) WHERE would i buy a replacement not too expensive? i am in europe (france) and paid like 50 euros for the camera. i wouldnt like to invest more than that in bellows...

Peltigera · Sep 13, 2015

The other problem with specifically Agfa folders is the green grease they used on the focusing helical - it sets like concrete eventually.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 13, 2015

_*_ said:
i have to admit that i am sometimes getting a bit tired of carrying around the rz67.
especially when i dont know what i am looking for and/or dont want to carry a backpack.

so i bought a 6x9 agfa folder camera.
ventura 69 deluxe (export version of record II) with 4.5/105mm solinar lens.
hopefully arrives soon ..

in the meantime some questions come up.

1. focussing by estimating the distances. especially close focussing. interesting and challenging. anybody out there who succeeds in nailing it? how do you like it in everyday shooting?
2. shutter vibration of the compur rapid. good, bad?
3. this cam got no cable port. instead a t-lever that has to be pressed down (and released after exposure). is this any good or is it more stable to manually keep the release pressed (B).
4. any other experiences/things to know/share about this cam? there is not too much coming up in the search..

well, i sure could wait until it arrives, but i have to say that i enjoy getting to know it already a bit... virtually

nice sunday eve
chris

folders are great cameras and focusing aids hat fit the hot shoe are available mine is made in Germany by Medis:munch:

Cycler · Sep 14, 2015

Focus by hyperfocal distance. Many older cameras have scales showing where the various apertures depth-of-field extend to. You simply turn the lens so that the focus index is against the farthest DOF is for the aperture in use. Then you can read-off where the nearest that a detail will be acceptably sharp is.
Works well with my Zeiss Ikon Nettar; particularly when using slower speeds on a tripod.

georg16nik · Sep 14, 2015

In case you need precision, then something like the Voigtlander 93/184 hot-shoe RF should do it.

pdeeh · Sep 14, 2015

If you can find a nice accessory rangefinder for the right price, it can be a real boon on scale-focus cameras.

But just make sure that your camera distance scale and the rangefinder scale are calibrated in the same units (both in feet or both in metric) -- unless your mental arithmetic is quicker than mine

DWThomas · Sep 14, 2015

I have acquired one of those shoe mount rangefinders, but in truth it's never on the camera, just residue from a GAS attack! Maybe it's from 70 years of "making stuff," but I generally can estimate the distances sufficiently for the type of photography I typically do with my folders. Even merging 'meters' and 'yards' in the brain is generally sufficient, especially if you're not shooting at wide open aperture. Of course, spoiled by use of the latest, greatest, I sometimes just plain forget to set the focus altogether! :confused:

Both my Ercona II and Perkeo II, in addition to depth of field markings, have two little special marks on the focus scale that can be set for quasi box camera use for many purposes. In the Perkeo manual the marks are described as for "Snapshot Focusing." One mark is a circle toward the infinity end and its use is described as at f/8 it will be in focus from 16.5 feet to infinity. The other is a little triangle that makes things good from about 8 to 16 feet.

If one starts getting into closeup lenses ("diopters"), the short depth of field makes focusing more critical, but then you are close enough to the subject to use a tape measure. (And if I were actually trying to do "macro" work, I would use my Bronica SLR.)

RalphLambrecht · Sep 14, 2015

DWThomas said:
I have acquired one of those shoe mount rangefinders, but in truth it's never on the camera, just residue from a GAS attack! Maybe it's from 70 years of "making stuff," but I generally can estimate the distances sufficiently for the type of photography I typically do with my folders. Even merging 'meters' and 'yards' in the brain is generally sufficient, especially if you're not shooting at wide open aperture. Of course, spoiled by use of the latest, greatest, I sometimes just plain forget to set the focus altogether! :confused:

Both my Ercona II and Perkeo II, in addition to depth of field markings, have two little special marks on the focus scale that can be set for quasi box camera use for many purposes. In the Perkeo manual the marks are described as for "Snapshot Focusing." One mark is a circle toward the infinity end and its use is described as at f/8 it will be in focus from 16.5 feet to infinity. The other is a little triangle that makes things good from about 8 to 16 feet.

If one starts getting into closeup lenses ("diopters"), the short depth of field makes focusing more critical, but then you are close enough to the subject to use a tape measure. (And if I were actually trying to do "macro" work, I would use my Bronica SLR.)

It's hard to beat an SLR for close-up work

ic-racer · Sep 14, 2015

I have used the human-eye-rangefinder method and it works very well. After a while one can get pretty good at guessing, so I don't carry the card around much. I made mine a little different; an adjustable "V" with a hole at the end of each piece, connected at the other end and the distance read off where the two pieces rotate.
https://tomchuk.com/misc/rf/

pdeeh · Sep 15, 2015

RalphLambrecht said:
focusing aids hat fit the hot shoe are available

This sounds a fantastic idea!
I have several hats but none of them have a hot (or even cold) shoe.
May I have the address of your milliner?

pdeeh · Sep 15, 2015

Was it made by the same people as this one? http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/Zgky...OTA-CmUJanBn/fa8ac36c/b57/hat-with-camera.jpg

chris77 · Sep 18, 2015

thanks everybody for the comments and advices . very appreciated.

i will try to estimate and with hyperfocal focussing and see how it goes.
as close up work is not what i am planning to do it should not be too complicated..

and as a petanque player i am quite good at estimating between 6 and 10 meters
chris

Ko.Fe. · Sep 18, 2015

DannL. said:
You can verify the focus quick enough with just four exposures.

For 6x9 even four exposures aren't necessary, I used cut off from CD case as GG to look at the focusing target, which was giant black X on white list of paper.

SalveSlog said:
I think you mean Agfa only?
I have many Zeiss folders and none of them needed a bellows replacement!

Lets see.
I have Ihagee old folder, I have old Agfa Billy Record folder, I have Nettar old 515 folder.
In the past I have Moskva-5, Moskva-2 not so old folders and two Voigtlander Perkeo old ones.

None, I repeat, NONE have bellows with problems.

JBA · Sep 21, 2015

I've been using folders regularly for a few years now from everything from landscapes and portraits to shooting sailing regattas from a moving boat. My avatar photo was shot from a chase boat with a
Franka Solida III on Rollei Retro 80s in August 2015.

Agfa folders are notorious for having leaky bellows. The only folder I've encountered with leaky bellows is my Zeiss Ikon Nettar 515, which has required several professional patch jobs. My folders have been serviced by the master himself, Jurgen Kreckel, a.k.a Certo6.

A few important tips about folding cameras:
Choose the shutter speed before cocking the shutter. When not in use, leave the shutter uncocked and set the shutter speed to B. This helps preserve the aging shutter springs.
It's a good idea to make sure the focus is set on infinity before folding the camera.
Most folders have a red dot between f8 & f11 and corresponding red mark on the focus scale. This is the hyperfocal sweet spot for optimum focus. Often this is the only focusing guide, as with zone-focus cameras. The lenses of zone-focus folders have enough depth-of-field that focus can be guessed more or less accurately, but I usually cheat by focusing with another camera and setting the focus distance accordingly.

Here are my folders, all of which are in regular use.

Bessa, Franka, & Nettar by Jonathan Barrett Adams, on Flickr

georg16nik · Sep 22, 2015

Ko.Fe. said:
For 6x9 even four exposures aren't necessary, I used cut off from CD case as GG to look at the focusing target, which was giant black X on white list of paper....

Attach a piece tracing paper with tape on 2 spools, load them and wound just so it gets flat across the film gate, open the back and focus, use tripod, meter targets etc.

bought my first folder camera.. focussing question.

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