Bought Bolex C8 Kern Paillard 8mm camera for photography

E. von Hoegh · Oct 22, 2013

Ektagraphic said:
Perhaps you might think about giving Minox a try while you are at it!

Yes, it will give equal or better results at what, a twenty-fifth the size??

ic-racer · Oct 22, 2013

Ektagraphic said:
Perhaps you might think about giving Minox a try while you are at it!

I thought the same thing reading this thread. Minox film is everywhere and easy to obtain (all you need is a splitter made from razor blades) whereas regular-8 is currently only available in one B&W emulsion.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 1, 2013

Hello again,

I think cinematography com forum members have long forgotten knowledge about yvar lenses , 13mm f:1.9 came to me and it has two rings , one for focus , other one is aperture. Its in excellent shape but I dont have an idea it is colliminated - new term to me-. I read at somewhere ,each lens colliminated for each camera , we might need not to swap the lenses on the camera , come and tell the ebay sellers and buyers.

I received the camera , it is working like an watch and 8 fps to 64 fps variable , I think - there is a chart on the camera - it changes from 1/17 second to 1/160 seconds shutter speeds. I need an empty spool and an cable release and adapter but no luck until now.

ic racer , for correct you there are least 5 sellers of color and bw fresh film on regular 8 mm format. If I am lucky , I will start to try the camera in a month after the clearing my need list.

I decided to try first roll with a distance meter and a notebook. I will try to fix any problem with focus differences after first film roll came to me.

Camera has differentiable view finder you can adapt to lens.

And I need a light meter. Above four costs me equivalent amount of money to body price.

For 12 dollars , and 40 dollars development fee , you can take 2000 may be 2500 frames . I think I can buy postal stamp collector sleeves and collect all 15 meter film been cut 15 cms pieces in stamp collector book. Sleeves made for securing small to bigger stamps and there is also transparent Lighthouse branded - Germany - sleeves to collect the big carnets opened. For each sleeve opening , its possible to put all 15 cms film non cut from the middle. And for each A4 plastic , there are 8 or so sleeves. Bad thing about them , stamps dances in the sleeves if you dont put them upright at your room.

Body came with original purchase box and the original documents signed at early 1950s.

Umut

I have 40X stamp engraving print microscope with light at the side.

ic-racer · Nov 1, 2013

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
ic racer , for correct you there are least 5 sellers of color and bw fresh film on regular 8 mm format. If I am lucky , I will start to try the camera in a month after the clearing my need list.

Do you have a link to any fresh regular 8 B&W reversal film other than FOMA? The only supplier I know of (John Schwind) is out of Kodak film permanently.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 1, 2013

Hello ic racer , check KAHL. They have various regular 8mm color and bw films at their website. They are 3 times more expensive than FOMA.
I asked cinematography forum site about their origin and all they said its similar or better than FOMA.

Dan Fromm · Nov 1, 2013

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
Hello again,

I think cinematography com forum members have long forgotten knowledge about yvar lenses , 13mm f:1.9 came to me and it has two rings , one for focus , other one is aperture. Its in excellent shape but I dont have an idea it is colliminated - new term to me-. I read at somewhere ,each lens colliminated for each camera , we might need not to swap the lenses on the camera , come and tell the ebay sellers and buyers.

Hmm. The point of standard lens mounts (in the small gauge cine world, D-mount, C-mount, H8RX-mount) is to make lenses interchangeable without requiring collimation to a particular camera. Kern and Bolex worked to high standards. If I were you I wouldn't worry about having the lens collimated to your camera until you have good evidence -- fuzzy images shot with distance measured with a tape, lens focused using its focusing scale, camera on a tripod, subject nailed down -- that it has to be done.

Stop worrying and start shooting!

Re worry, some years ago my wife and I spent a few days in Ajo, Arizona. Ate every evening in what we thought was Ajo's only decent restaurant. It had a young waitress, sort of cute in a blonde pouty-faced top-heavy way, with a bad attitude. One day she wore a sweatshirt with the message "I am always right. You are always wrong." Welcome to the club of the always wrong and stop worrying.

ic-racer · Nov 1, 2013

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
Hello ic racer , check KAHL. They have various regular 8mm color and bw films at their website. They are 3 times more expensive than FOMA.
I asked cinematography forum site about their origin and all they said its similar or better than FOMA.

The B&W is old film, website translates: "layered remnants from our warehouse ... 1999"

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 1, 2013

Thank you Dan and ic-racer.

Dan, thank you clearing my mind. I was worrying about collimination and I dont know how repair shops fix it , may be they have a way to adjust the mount. And repairing a bolex camera costs starts 12 times than the camera. I must say ic-racer is a better researcher than me , I never seen 1999 at their website. By the way I learned 1.8 is 4 elements and 1.9 is 3 elements design. FOMA reversal development kit costs 35 euros and may be more shipping expense. I asked cinematography com about availability of pretesting a roll end to decide on development times and they say only few does it in the world. I dont know who ?

I made an calculation , 35mm film has 16 megapixels if I am not wrong 30 mb or so information. If I am using 1/7 of the 35 mm , it makes 4 megabytes of information per frame. I put my images 500 kb to the gallery. Does it make I can put same quality image with 35mm image more compressed with less compression of 8 mm frame ?

Umut

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 2, 2013

I think I was wrong , 8mm film has area 1/25 of 35mm. Its possible to scan 35 mm film 30 mb without adding noise.
If I have 1/25 area , I have 1.2 mb from 8 mm. If I %50 compress it , I found that I have postcard size image without lose.

ic-racer · Nov 2, 2013

Mustafa, I really think you should re-consider using a small single-frame camera, rather than the Bolex for this project. Here are a few cameras from my collection that I use. They all take NON-Perforatred film that can be slit with a razor-blade splitter from larger film. They all have re-loadable cartridges. All these cameras are available for not much money. The ones I use all have fully adjustable focus, aperture and shutter speed (except for the Minox with its fixed aperture).
In terms of film, you can get fresh Double-X Kodak 16mm NEGATIVE film for about $25 US Dollars. That film fits right in the 16mm cameras in the picture and can be easily slit to fit the Minox.

Dan Fromm · Nov 2, 2013

ic, I agree completely, but Mustafa is neck-deep in brown stuff that isn't shoe polish and I'm not sure he can get out.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 2, 2013

I cant get out from brown stuff , I jumped in to it and I am in it neck depth. Well , I found an very old guy selling release cable , wrote to him to England and wait confirmation for its fit to C8. I need a empty reel and its damm expensive or its cheap and postage costs 35 dollars.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 2, 2013

ic racer , how many frames does records a fresh 16mm camera film for 25 dollars. This is the most important question ? By the way , I liked all of your cameras very much , do you consider to sell me metal one with metallic glass one.

ic-racer · Nov 2, 2013

2 feet = 20 exposures so the 100 foot roll gives 1000 exposures.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 2, 2013

I checked ebay and minolta 16 camera is less than 15 dollars but image quality is similar to other japanese optics, basically I look for rock solid images whether it was 4 postal stamp size or so. I found flickr images as foggy , low contrast and dull. And I never could not agree with Double X. I found someone put paillard yvar on pentax digital camera and there is 100 years of image quality difference. I think I must save for release cable. I liked the viewfinder of Bolex. I have nothing to lose after all , biggest buy been bought. If the lens or camera have an error , I sell it at Germany ebay and buy a minox but I have a Leica Mini Zoom and Rollei 35S and buying big roll of film and develop at home is cheaper and better.

Dan Fromm · Nov 2, 2013

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
I checked ebay and minolta 16 camera is less than 15 dollars but image quality is similar to other japanese optics, basically I look for rock solid images whether it was 4 postal stamp size or so. I found flickr images as foggy , low contrast and dull. And I never could not agree with Double X. I found someone put paillard yvar on pentax digital camera and there is 100 years of image quality difference. I think I must save for release cable. I liked the viewfinder of Bolex. I have nothing to lose after all , biggest buy been bought. If the lens or camera have an error , I sell it at Germany ebay and buy a minox but I have a Leica Mini Zoom and Rollei 35S and buying big roll of film and develop at home is cheaper and better.

Mustafa, before you condemn "japanese optics" you should educate yourself about how good they are and aren't. I know that you've drunk the Leica koolaid and are resistant to reality, but broad generalizations such as you've just made are too much.

I don't know why, but you seem to have fixed on the idea that the cost of film holds you back from doing something that's important to you. Smaller formats use less film, therefore Mustafa should use smaller formats. Smaller formats can't match larger ones for image quality and getting the best they can give is difficult.

Why don't you take a cold shower or swim the Bosporus or do something else to release tension and then reconsider how best to attain your goals given your resources? As is, you've set yourself up for continuous frustration.

There are good reasons why no one uses small gauge cine cameras to shoot stills (except, of course, for animation work) and why very few people use even half-frame 35 mm cameras very much. Half-frame 35 mm never really caught on. Reflect on why it didn't.

And while you're reflecting, contemplate why I never used my Super 8 Beaulieus (that have superlative optics) to shoot stills. I had the opportunity. Why didn't I take it? Please don't tell me that I'm stupid or ignorant. Also contemplate why I never shot 16 mm (hint: cost, weight, size).

ic-racer · Nov 2, 2013

The 4-element Rokkor 22mm f2.8 lens is one of the best lenses in the history of 16mm still cameras. Here is a 4x5" print from a negative taken with the older 3-element Rokkor lens. Keys to sharpness are not stopping down more than f 5.6 and using the fastest shutter speed or supporting the camera on a stationary object.

Jim Jones · Nov 3, 2013

Dan is correct, if not tactful, in post 41. It seems better for many of us to take a few or a few hundred good photos with 35mm or larger equipment than to save money by taking endless poor photos. Perhaps using cine equipment is practical for someone plotting to impose upon their Facebook friends with thousands of otherwise useless images.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 3, 2013

I have lots of reasons to select that path.

Dan Fromm · Nov 3, 2013

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
I have lots of reasons to select that path.

Yeah, yeah, you fell in love with the woman and convinced her to marry you and now you're stuck. Except that divorce is always possible.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 4, 2013

I have to lose lots of money and experience with the woman if I sold her to slavery before try. By the way this is real , an ukranian hurlet is my new neighbor , she is using ancient mariner tactics , one of them hit the enemy galley with your ship from the side with full force , she said I am speaking english like an english teacher, UH !!

MattKing · Nov 4, 2013

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
I have to lose lots of money and experience with the woman if I sold her to slavery before try. By the way this is real , an ukranian hurlet is my new neighbor , she is using ancient mariner tactics , one of them hit the enemy galley with your ship from the side with full force , she said I am speaking english like an english teacher, UH !!

You know how Craigslist has a "Best of Craigslist" category, where some of the more memorable posts are collected.

Does APUG need something similar????:munch:

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Dec 3, 2013

I have received FOMA R film and cable release. I tried cable and found single frame is usable at all camera speeds. I have just bought camera take up spool from ebay also. One film developing company told me they use d94 kodak developer and normal development and weak bleach stains the highlights. Film process company told me they advise to develop +1 push development to force the bleach and they advised 1/2 stop more for camera. Some reports 1/3 stop more for lower speeds compensation. It makes 180 ASA is the cheap film processing speed for FOMA R. I found that dr5 is cleanest processing and 3 times more expensive and indicates 160 ASA speed for that film.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Dec 8, 2013

Bought Bolex C8 Kern Paillard 8mm camera for photography

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