Bottles/air removal

panchromatic · Mar 15, 2005

I have a few one gallon typical brown jugs and i was wondering since air can harm chemicals if they made a lid for them and could pump the excess air out of bottle to create a small vaccum to prevent the chemical reaction with the air.

oriecat · Mar 15, 2005

I haven't heard of anything like that, but I have seen places that sell marbles to use up the extra space.

juan · Mar 15, 2005

It seems to me that chemicals last longer in glass bottles without making any effort to reduce the air inside the bottle than chemicals stored in plastic with the air reduced. I suspect that the plastic allows more oxygen in than the limitied surface area inside a glass bottle. I have not made any scientific tests of this theory - it just seems correct from years of fooling with this stuff.
juan

Lee Shively · Mar 15, 2005

I don't do this but it seems like an idea that might work.

There's a device called a "Vacu-Vin" (spelling???) that is made for wine drinkers who don't want to guzzle the whole bottle at one sitting. It is composed of a couple of rubber stoppers and an air pump. The stopper has a tiny aperture through it that self-closes. Extra stoppers are available separately. You place the stopper in the bottle, push the pump over the stopper and pump out the air. This prevents the wine from oxidizing. It's not a permanent solution, however. I know it works for a couple of days but I don't know if it will hold a seal for a longer time.

You could try storing chemicals in the 1.5 liter wine bottles and use this device. No guarantees.

Dave Miller · Mar 15, 2005

I use a Tetenal product called Protectan, which is an inert gas that replaces the air in the container. Works well.

chuck94022 · Mar 15, 2005

The Vacu-Vin system has also been applied to storage jars for coffee, nuts, etc. I don't have a link but I believe Williams Sonoma, or other kitchen stores, might have them. They are clear plastic (I guess you could paint them brown...) with white lids, and one of those Vacu-Vin corks in the middle of the lid. You pump out the air, which also tightly seals the lid.

Frankly, I have no idea how much air is left. Probably more than you would think. It isn't going to completely evacuate the jar, but it will reduce the pressure inside the jar.

You're probably better off with a variety of other suggested solutions, like collapsible bottles, butane, marbles...

-chuck

resummerfield · Mar 15, 2005

I was looking for Protectan once and called JOBO. The rep told me they no longer sold it, but a good substitute for "Protectan" was propane. Yes, those little 14oz bottles at the hardware store. Just attach a nozzle and spray a little gas into the bottle and close. (Don't light it, and no open flames!). I haven't yet tried it, but I plan to.

sergio caetano · Mar 15, 2005

To preserve developers that are kept in half-filled bottles, blow some carbon dioxide (from your lungs) into the bottle. The carbon dioxide will form a protective layer over the surface of the solution and seal out the air that oxidizes. (Aaron Sussman, The Amateur Photographer's Handbook).

VoidoidRamone · Mar 15, 2005

I've heard that spraying canned air (dust-off, etc.) into the jug then capping it tightly works. I do this, but I don't know how to prove if it worked or not... my chemicals still work, but the longest I've had something in a bottle and not used it was about 3 weeks-a month.
-Grant

Flotsam · Mar 15, 2005

I found a cache of Beseler XDL that I must have bought up in a rare glimmer of foresight back when they discontinued it. I should be set for years. When that's gone, I'll switch back to Butane.

BS67 · Mar 15, 2005

Check at a welding supply store for how much a small bottle of Argon costs. It's inert, and is used for heliarc welding.

chuck94022 · Mar 15, 2005

BS67 said:
Check at a welding supply store for how much a small bottle of Argon costs. It's inert, and is used for heliarc welding.

That's the ticket! Weld those bottles shut!

-chuck

panchromatic · Mar 16, 2005

chuck94022 said:
That's the ticket! Weld those bottles shut!

-chuck

lol

Thanks everyone for the suggestions!

dancqu · Mar 17, 2005

"... a few one gallon ... jugs ..." Marbles by the hundred weight.

My guess; quarts or liter size glass will serve much better. Pay
attention to those that may be well sealed and keep them
well sealed. My bottles use the PE cork-with-screw caps
knowen by the names Polycone or Polyseal. I think they
are the surest seals money can buy. Dan

schambuk · Mar 17, 2005

In my experience the 'Vac-u-Vin' type stoppers hold their seal for several weeks - especially if you wet them before forming the vacuum. There may also be another advantage in vacuum sealing photochemicals. I have noticed the tiny bubbles forming when the vacuum is applied probably representing dissolved air coming out of solution in the partial vacuum - less oxygen for oxidation.

Bottles/air removal

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